The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode 76 · 3 months ago

The Future of PPC in Higher Ed Marketing

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Since the pandemic, many higher ed marketers have gone to pay-per-click ads to generate leads. In the near future, Google is changing its cookie-based metrics andthe playing field will change significantly. Today’s guests have a new approach to generating leads for institutions. 

PJ Wenzel and Marty Gray are the President and Vice President of Ring Digital, and their goal is to help their clients efficiently and effectively reach their target audience without the reliance on PPC. PJ and Marty will explain these coming changes in PPC marketing and how higher ed marketers can effectively use their data. 

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why real-life targeting can be more effective than online behavioral targeting? 
  • Different examples of how Ring Digital helps higher ed marketers reach their target audience
  • PJ and Marty’s advice that higher ed marketers can use immediately. 

The High Red Marketering podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. Today, Bart and I speak to P J Winzel and Marty Gray from ring digital and they're going to help us explain to our listeners the changes that are coming in the ways that we can execute lead generation. And Yeah, Troy, I think there's so much, so much attention to going on and I've seen so many clients, especially since the pandemic, really leaning into paper click campaigns, whether it's Google and search and display or Meta with facebook and instagram and other ones. Those are really good tools. Um The playing field is going to change real soon because Google is doing away with some cookie based Um metrics in the way that they're tracking people with cookies, and so that's going to really change a lot of the ways that we're actually doing paper, Click and Um. I really like the guys that ring because they've they've kind of approached it from a different standpoint, from a behavioral standpoint of actually understanding those devices that we carry and and knowing, you know, the location that we're at and what we're what our spending habits are and actually how we behave and how that might be a better predictor of a lead for institutions. And so this is a great conversation. I would really encourage to kind of listen and take some notes. Yeah, we really appreciate PG and party for helping us get this out to our listeners. Let's get to that conversation. As we approach all the important information with P J and Marty, I do want to ask one of you to tell us if there's anything that you've learned this week that's unique or interesting that you can share. Yeah, the very important information that I have to share with you, troy, is that when I don't eat thousands of calories of carbs every week, I feel really good. I'm on toll thirty and I'm like, I've never thought so clearly for my clients ever before. Thank you. I know both thirty is a big thing for a lot of people and they've had great success. And, by the way, everyone that was PJ. Both PJ and Marty are from ring digital and they're going to share some of their wisdom and things that they offer their clients through ring digital. And Marty, if you would, if you can kind of introduce us to you and P J and ring digital. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, so much, Troy. This is great. So Pj is our president and CO founder, fearless leader of Ring Digital, and I'm I'm a guy who, uh, PJ, sought out to say, Hey, I've got this, this idea on how to bring truth, transparency and accuracy to the digital space and I would like some help, Um, educating and, Uh and, like pj said, thinking clearly for his clients. So I've been guilty of the whole thirty a time or two. Myself. Thank you. And Ring Digital, tell us a little bit about what you do. Yeah, absolutely, P j. What are you going to take that? Oh, yeah, sure, yeah, so, ring. Um, ring was founded in two thousand and fourteen and Um, we really got heavily into the digital space a couple of years after that, and primarily what we do is helping connect our clients better with their target audience. Um. We had clients...

...who were really frustrated, Um, to put it lightly, that they didn't know who they were advertising too. We're really unsure about the attribution models that they were getting and Um. And just to put it very, very frankly, they didn't know if the ads they were buying we're getting in front of the right people and they didn't really know how to tell if they were. and Um. So ring takes an approach that is, we think, rather unique. Uh, and we we really focus on connecting our our clients with their target audience in a way that can be measured and that they know, going in ahead of time who exactly they're targeting. Um, like literally the names, the addresses and all the information that they need to know about their target audience. We can actually tell them who they are. Um, in many cases, Um, we can tell them a lot more, and often our clients in the Higher Ed space we're going to get into this. I'm share a little bit. Um, they've got their own data and so we're helping them use that data in a more effective way. So that's what ring is all about. It's about, you know, leveraging the power of digital we think, in the next in the next gen sort of connective way. Thank you, PJ, and both Bart and I wanted to have you on the podcast to help us explain and demonstrate to our listeners the difference between behavioral lead generation models and cookie lead generation models and, uh, which one is better, which one's in the future, and that's something that your company has experience with. So we were hoping to educate everyone today on the difference and where we see the industry, especially for Higher Ed clients, going forward. So if you would, one of you kind of explain the difference between the two. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. So you know, on your last podcast I was listening to you guys, talked to Jay bear and one of the things that you guys talked about was the need for universities to be collecting more and more of their own proprietary data. The question is what to do with said data. What do I do with this? and Uh so leave that there for a moment. Uh, the importance of that it will become clear soon. In the past Um and for the last I mean G's ten, twelve more years than that, the programmatic digital space. So digital ads, although they're through Um, you know, Google's AD network or other ad networks, have all been based on a type of behavioral targeting Um, which is foundationally based on the cookie. So there you know, when we talk about behavioral Ad Targeting, Um, there's a couple of ways to think of it. But Online, uh, you know, behaviorally online based targeting, behavioral online target so how do people behave online? and that is what cookies have been used to track and basically store that information. Um. However, with the rise of automation and more and more bought traffic, uh, and less and more demand, frankly, for transparency, that model has stopped working. Google has recognized that and that's why they have started working on Um. Everything. You know, the the flock, the flock flop, so to speak. We've heard about and then this this cookie shell for the cookie cliff, as they call it. You know, cookies are going away. This model of of targeting Um from an online behavioral standpoint currently is going away. Um. So the question is, how do we? How do we target? And that's where the university's data comes in and and, frankly, other hard data stamp sources. What you know, instead of gathering online...

...behavioral data from cookies batched into segments by big companies like oracle or Blue Kai, Um, you know, who are, you know, selling that data to Google and others, instead of those cookie segments Um being used, what's going to be used? We think, and we think the more elegant use is simply to use proprietary hard offline data and match that to Um Hardware specs. So let's say it's a device, i. d targeting or some other real, live device type identifier that connects the user, the target, with the data that the university has, because a lot of cases that data is really good. and Um, I'll take it. I'll take a step back there and to say also that the reason why rings started down that road, and this is because because that's how we talk, is more to do with the impact that we saw from offline based data, and that is to say Um, and this is not universally true. So don't push me all the way through on this, because online behavioral stuff is it's powerful too. But if I go online to men's health or to you know, MSNBC or whatever, it doesn't necessarily mean like it doesn't say as much about me as if I were to go into dixporting goods and purchase something. So, in other words, what we do with our bodies in the physical world and what we do with our money in the in the world, whether it's online or in the physical world, what we do with our money and our time in the real world has a more significant impact than what we what website, we happen to click onto or scroll down. And because that is true inherently, we need to be able to market two people based on that behavior, that real world behavior, if we really want to have an impact. And so that's where we start from, and so I hope that's a little bit of, uh an answer to what you're getting at. That's really good, PJ, and let me just kind of get my head wrapped around this, because I mean, you know, I don't think I'm a typical I carry my phone pretty much everywhere I go. My phone is a piece of hardware that, if I recall, it's like got a Mac address or some weird name like that that is unique only to that phone. And what you're telling me is that that my my data is connected to that, that piece of hardware, whether I'm sitting in a parking lot or I just drove through campus and I'm with my kids on vacation and we decided to swing over and just kind of do a quick walk through campus, but nobody knows that we're there. I can be you can. You can identify that because I'm part of your database, or maybe you bought a name and you can say, okay, this address my home address and I'm connected. My home address is connected to these pieces of hardware. All of a sudden, now you can start to understand my behavior based on my my hardware. But not only that, but another thing you said was that my spending. So the fact that I'm spending everything with my with my visa or my Master Card, I can also that's another piece of hardware, if you will, that can be tracked and and that behavior shows up. Is that correct? And Yeah, that's right. So the things that we do in the real world have been sold two companies like Visa Mx. you know, all the banks, all the travel websites, all of these folks we have. We have long since made the trade off that we are okay with people selling our data as long as we get a really good service, and often it's a free service. I mean that's the entire backbone of facebook, right. Um. So you know that that theory, but we've had that theory working in operation in our society for decades now and that's how the banks and credit card companies make money and in another way.

So that data is all. It's always been available. You know, the direct mail companies have had it and many other people have had it, but it's it's not been utilized very well by digital marketers and frankly, Um, it's, you know, the location based services that you're talking about. That that's part of the key. And so it's not just and it's not even just the MAC idea. I mean the people don't realize that there are many identifiers on your phone and when you travel somewhere, uh, the location, there is going to be an APP that allows for tracking of your location and that APP will provide that and and it will be in the bidstream and that stuff will be pulled down and yeah, that's super creepy. But I'll just say this. People, you know, on one hand they want their privacy and that's a good thing, but on the other hand, they want ads their pertinent to them. They don't want ads that are superfluous. I love getting an ad, for instance, that is going to show me a new, uh, you know, gadget or something that I might be interested in. I want ads their target for me. I don't you know, and that's and that's why I think it's going to be extraordinarily important, um, you know, for our clients and for others to realize the power of of, you know, that offline data, and it's just connecting everything in a different way. So it's all this data has always been available and it's getting better and better, but it's a matter of connecting it in a new way, if that makes sense. We talk a lot about it on the show. Schools are really struggling today to make the same at spen work, CPMS are up eighty nine year over year. On facebook and instagram. Our College clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi has become so crucial for our clients, with over one million students, close to ten thou five star ratings consistently ranked as one of the top social laps and recently, one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zem Me not only provides the best space for student engagement but the most unique and actional data for the one sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Ze me is a must have strategy for Gen Z. Check them out now at colleges dot Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M E dot Com. And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. Yeah, that does. And and so that really starts to open up a whole lot of different things, because I mean, and I guess I'm curious too, that, like your example of going to men's health versus, you know, walking into sporting goods and buying something. Um, I have to guess that there's some inaccuracies in the data that we're relying on from this this cookie or you know, I've got a ton of clients that you are ponying up, you know, a couple five hundred thousand dollars a month to to to do you know, facebook ads or Google ads and and you know, I've seen it work very well with bigger budgets, but, you know, smaller budgets it almost feels like, you know you're going to vegas and just doing a little bit of a crap shoot. Um, help me understand a little bit about how all that changes, because, I mean, if there's inaccurate data out there, you know there's a lot of things that are coming in the net that aren't worth anything. That's right, and big companies are able to do that because of the scale they're able to scale. But I mean if you're a mid sized business and you're spending maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, or a university, uh, that maybe is spending, Um, you know, a million dollars on digital every year or a half a million. You don't have the luxury, uh, to be able to cast that wide of the net. Uh, and frankly, nobody should want to do that. Nobody should want to waste money. The reason why it's become more and more inaccurate is just having to do with the way that technology has...

...evolved, and so those cookies, it's all built on the back of a technology that was never meant to hold this uh, kind of marketing. And so one way to check you you can check your cookie footprints, so to speak. You can go to Oracle and request, UM, request that. So you would be shocked. Uh. You know, I didn't know that I was also a woman. I didn't know that I was in five age categories. I thought I was a young guy, but apparently I'm also sixty five and older. I mean, they've got me in every age category, Um, and they've got me in both female male. They've got me with interests that I could care less about. I didn't know I took up fishing, you know, like all these different things. And so don't forget, PJ, you live in six different states, I know. I know I'm very affluent, UM, like. These are the kinds of things, though, that when we started looking into this, like, but again for a mid sized business and a small business especially, Um, you know, when you're targeting your ads this way, you just you don't have the scalability that you know, an IBM or Dick Sporting goods, to use the example. I mean you don't have thirty five million dollars to to throw into this, because for them, like, you got to remember it's not just about the sale, the straight sales conversion. For them it's a branding play and they're totally willing to brand everybody the same thing with paper click. If you think about this, the idea is is not just about Um, it's not just about, you know, targeting a certain segment. With that you're really casting a wide net because even if you did get a non Bot right bart that would that would click three of then, if it's a real person, how do you know? I mean the minute, how do you know they're part of your target, target audience? Um, the minute you want to do any kind of targeting, you want to bring targeting into the picture, even with paper click right, then you are you are layering on the same cookie back backbone, and so you're still relying on that and and that's a problem. I mean so that that's what we're trying to kind of just educate people about and say, like, this might have been an elegant solution, and it is a really cool solution. If you think about how the cookie model came together, maybe ten years ago or fifteen years ago, a long time. It's it's time is flying, but now it's just with the rise of automation and so many other Um, so many other issues with the data. It's it's just become less effective and we don't think the universities can really afford to be that that ineffective with such a competitive atmosphere. PJ and Marty, so is it accurate when I say that the paper click or the cookie based model would be described as a real life targeting model versus where we would like to go or what might be a little more effective as the behavioral model? Well, UM, right now industry speak is a little Um, it's a little fluid. So, for instance, if you specify that, and which is why I think we're asking good questions, is so important. When people say behavioral, some we've encountered behavioral as. People think of it as online. They believe online behavioral based targeting. Like they're thinking online behavioral. So that's why we have to ask like, well, what kind of behavioral targeting are you talking about? And so you've just phrased it in a way that you know we don't encounter as much, but it's probably actually more how it should be phrased. But yeah, behavioral targeting. That's why you have to get you like well, do you mean like based on purchase history or credit score, or you know something that people like? Real data points? Are you talking about online behavioral like based on the websites that people have visited? And that those are the kinds of questions you have to get down to. Thank you, PJ. So, keeping in mind that we're talking to higher...

...end marketers, if you can kind of guide us in the conversation to what are you recommending us to go to? Yeah, absolutely, this is Marty. Sorry, Peter, are you going to say something? I can now go for it. All right. Well, this is where this is the part that I absolutely love, is to take these concepts and these ideas that and bring them to reality for folks. And so you know, there's always going to be new technology out there. Um. One of the things that we're doing is uh Um is both creepy but a lot of fun. Whenever we're talking with people and they say to us, wow, this is really effective as a consumer. Are really effective as a marketer, but kind of creepy as a consumer, we know that they've got the concept down Um. And so what I mean by that is some of the new stuff that we're doing is automatic content record mission or or, for Short, a C R and that is just simply put that if you are watching something on your smart tv in your home and let's say you're a university and your buying ad space on that on that TV, through the digital means, you see someone get served with a university a AD. Well, let's say Your University B. We can actually see what content is being displayed on that TV screen, that SMART TV screen in that home and then almost like like like race car, you can Nascar, you can draft and you could then a day later or to serve an ad for your university because you just saw that that ad was served for university a. So pretty powerful stuff. But what is really exciting goes back to this this real world data that PJ was talking about, when that is the foundational starting point and the Foundational Building Block of what you're doing the real world behavior. We put that data to work and then we're able to the gold standard for us is the match back or just the comparison of spreadsheet as your list of targets and Spreadsheet B is now your list of enrolled students in your institution. So here's an example of that. We had a top five sec school come to us and you know, they this won't come as a surprise to a lot who are listening in on this, and that is that they spend thousands of dollars every single year on research, and that research is who are my underserved markets? Who are the people that we need to be reaching out to? How do we get and then, naturally, you're left with those questions. How do we get in front of those people? So this school specifically, as we were talking with them, they came across Um an underserved universe, as we like to call them, of students, which was low income gap schools for pell grants, and so what they had was a list of twenty thousand people that that we're on their pell grant list, target list, and so what we did was, along with their direct mail, along with their search engine optimization, their paper click, their their billboards, TV, radio, we injected this into the sum of all of their marketing parts, and so what we did was bring to the attention of these first generation students who thought that they may not be able to attend the university, that there was a spot for them and in fact the university wanted them to come to them specifically. So what we ended up doing was taking that same list and survey, uh, digital display and non skippable pre...

...roll video ads in browsers and APPs directly into the devices within those same households that we're on that literal Excel spreadsheet list. And then, Um, we we narrowed that down to thirty five hundred students who raise their hand and filled out an application. So we narrowed down applicants or possible applicants, to thirty five hundred students. And here's what we then found is we then took that list of thirty five hundred students and started targeting them with different messaging. Now that you have interest, your real world behavior is I'm interested in your university, and now we're going to continue to tweak that message and narrow it down and get to you specifically. So at the end of the campaign, when we compared the two spreadsheets, it was who did we target? Because we predetermined that and we know that, just like direct mail, we love to say all the time this is like direct mail, only for digital. And so what we do is we found that of the students that enrolled, h three thousand we targeted, little over three thousand we targeted and as a control group we left off a little over four hundred to target with only their direct mail and other meats, but we left digital out. For those folks that received the injection of our digital marketing, fifty one of those three thousand students are now enrolled in the institution, compared to only twenties five percent of students are enrolled who did not receive our digital marketing. So the conversion on that lift yield as as you know, every this is on the mind of every admissions and enrollment person in any institution. How do I lift the number of applicants and then how do I yield or keep the most amount of those possible as they move through their enrollment matriculation process? So you know, it's having a lift or a two point to six x increase in their conversion is staggering, especially when we know that these universities needs to be so careful with their dollars and a lot of times, you know, these are public dollars and you need to be able to account for every dollar, every dime, every penny that's spent on these on these campaigns. So let me let me just kind of tease that out a little bit, Marty, because I mean you're you're talking about some, you know, large sec school and you know, university type schools. I know for a fact that just about every school, I mean when when you start even looking at schools that are, you know, a thousand and above metric metric relation of student population, there you know everybody does students search and people have been doing student search for decades where, you know, it used to be the fact that you'd go and buy the A C T test registration list or the S A t test registration list and and you know you can still do that. There's other there's other places out there now that are offering similar lists that you can purchase, whether it's niche or or um or uh, you know, there's a ton of them. But the point is is that, you know, people are investing anywhere between, you know, I don't know how much money, but they're buying five, fifty thousand names or a hundred thousand names, seniors, junior, sophomores, and they're typically going through a traditional you know, we're gonna send an email, we're gonna send them text we're gonna send them postcards, we're gonna try to generate some leads out of that. But what I hear you saying is that if I have a list and I have an address, that is my key to be able to then start to inject this digital elements that you're that you're talking about, rather than relying on hoping that, my perspective,...

...student is going to open their email or or, you know, hoping that they're gonna, you know, look at the direct mail, which is effective. You're telling me that I can also uploade these lists to a tool like what you guys do, and then start injecting ads into the household as part of that campaign. Yes, and that's going to get the quickest return, because that's the lift, yield, nurture part of this Um. So you're spot on. And then P J mentioned the data aspect of this is, you know, a lot of institutions that we're talking with, both large and smaller institutions, a lot of folks that used to be a requirement to have your a C T and s a t score, so they would buy those lists specifically. Well, a lot of institutions have have dropped that because they see it as a barrier to entry for the student. And so because, as you know, the all this data that PJ was mentioning. You know we have. This goes back to the creepy part. Like there's up to a thousand different data points in our dictionaries of of of identify Rs, of who people are, household income, Um, you know, credit score, Um, you know what type of gas do you put in your car? I should probably stop before people like it's so creeped out that they click end on this thing. Um, but you know it's so we can really do both. The quickest return, however, that higher education is going to receive through through a partnership in doing something like this, is is through their lift yield lists, because we we all know this right. It's it's easier to to have a conversation with someone or to start a conversation or continue with someone who's interested versus someone who is off the Ray. do or may not know you will trust the institution or the brand just yet. And so, to your point, you know we have. We have, you know, smaller university relationships where they've they've purchased nine plus names and they're excited to put that data to work. And you can, you can bifurcate those lists, you can you can sparse them out and say to the sophomores that we want to start having a conversation with, let's send them drip campaigns of, you know, just you know, less frequent contact, but we're still getting in front of them. And then the juniors you intensify that a little bit and the seniors you really ramp that up. And so you can do both. So to answer your question, you really can do both, with the nurturing and also the prospecting. But the nurture is absolutely where you're going to have the quickest return, because folks are already interested in having a conversation. There's an interesting thing that happens to in the mark in the digital marketing world, with when it comes to lists, um to. Just to clarify, it's not that traditional digital agencies haven't been able to take lists and use lists before Um, but there is. So if you were to talk to an agency, can you take this s a t list? Can you take this intender's list? Can you take this list, Field List? They'll say yes, but it's what do you do with that list? And so there's a difference between, for instance, this this new way of approaching digital advertising that Marty just described. For one of our universities. There's a difference between that and what traditionally folks have done with lists, because in the past they might inject that list, they might take that but what they will do is they'll take it to somewhere like a live ramp, which still is using a cookie based model. But what they'll do is they'll take that list of hard names addresses and they will model on top of that cookie, say egments. So they'll say...

...we want to match these names and addresses to profiles based on online behavioral data that, let's say, an oracle or someone else has. So what you're doing is you're taking really good data and you're you're you're adding a level of uncertainty and really, at this point in the game, bad targeting. You know, uh, you remember caddyshack, bag caddying, like you're adding some bad caddying into it. Um. So this, this is this is Um, it's just something for you know, if you're a marketer and you're a marketing director and you're saying my agency, I'll ask my agency if they can do this, ask them like, well, were you taking that data? How are you going to approach this with this data? Because that's a really telling thing. If they're just going to like upload it to live ramp or somewhere else, then essentially it's all wasted. It's it's that you're you're back to square one essentially. Okay, so just one thing I want to kind of clarify little bit, Marty, on what you said. You said you talked about these hundreds and thousands of data points. One thing that kind of went away. Um, and I've got a lot of people that are listening on this this show that are going to be faith based institutions and up until about three or four years ago, part of the A C T S, a t, you know, pre you know test questionnaire was about your religious affiliation and your denomination. A lot of kids didn't understand that. A lot of kids didn't know what that to put in, but it was some data that they could say, I want to be able to buy a list of, you know, students who are part of the Baptist Church or part of the Presbyterian Church or whatever that is. That's went away and so there's there's a there's a blind spot now and there's there's places that they can go and get that and things like that. Does your data provide you does does your the tools provide with big data? I mean, if we if we're getting down into, you know, the details of credit scores and things like that, I'm sure there's some ways to be able to identify or affiliate some kind of religious activity as well. Is that true? That is yes, yeah, so in the data. You know. We've, you know, even been asked to do that before and have executed it. So it's absolutely in the data. Okay, because that brings me to my next question. Is that now, all of a sudden, if I bought this list, you know, and I've got a hundred thousand names, it seems to me like I can give that list to someone like yourselves, or somebody does the work that you do be able to then come back and say, okay, I want you to take this list and I want you to identify those people that have these key elements that I want. I want to have, you know, this kind of UH income, household income, because I do, I do want my first Gen students and my pel grant students, but I also kind of want full paced, you know, students that that I can kind of, you know, make it make some net revenue on for my university. I want to identify, you know that. I want to identify some religious affiliation and understand there that that household does have that as a part of their lifestyle. And and then I want to be able to then take that hundred thousand lists and now I'm down to let's say now I want to do something with that, even if it's a brand awareness campaign before they get into my you know, my my yield campaign that I'm going to do after they get accepted. Is that a possibility to that I'm starting to serve brand awareness ads, you know, in on Hulu and things like that, to those households. Yeah, absolutely. The the awareness factor is also, like you said, very important. And when it comes to the TV, there are lots of different ways, Um, to get in front of people. But it goes to what PJ said before. Any time you take that list, I like to think of it as Um. There's that that list is powerful because that list is direct. It normally has as a first name, a...

...last name, physical street address, city, state, Zip, you know, enter phone number, whether it's, you know, your mobile phone or your second mobile phone. Um, you know in a whole host of other things. And when, like PJ said, when you are taking that list and you're uploading it to a live ramp, for example, you're you're immediately diluting the power when their directness of of that data. And so what this does is then is then say whether you're a large school or you're a small school. Like there's to your in state, out of state point or question. Um, it's really interesting. There was a Midwest University and they actually gave us three lists and those three lists they there. Their priority list was number two, and priority list number two was was out of state students, trying to get them to come to the university. And so we did advertising for seventy five days and UM, when we advertise for seventy five days list they had thirty nine students in role from all three lists, but thirty three of the thirty nine students those were students from list number two that were out of state students. So you can just like you said, do you want to bring awareness to your in state students, to your out of state students, to your stopout students, to your pel grant students? What it transfers students? There's a ton of cool things that you can do, especially when it comes to transfer students. And Uh, I think the other thing to keep in mind here is especially when it comes to the to the TV, and honestly, guys like TV is probably a whole another segment in and of itself. Um, so I won't I won't delve into that too much here, but being able to actually not target an area by by a demographic or media. Yeah, so being able to actually go into the household and target on someone's TV based off of the list of that starting point gives supreme confidence in in the directness of whether it is branding or it is specifically for the purpose of Um of enrollment. That's awesome. Thank you, Marty, and just listening to you and unfortunately we're going to have to bring our show to a close, but you just opened up another chapter that I'm sure that we could talk about for fifteen or twenty minutes and in a few minutes I want to give you an opportunity to share your contact information for those who would be interested in that next chapter. But we love to end our episodes of the podcast by asking if there's a piece of advice dealing with what we've discussed today that you could give a higher red marketer that they could implement easily. Yeah, I would the advice. I to two pieces of advice. The first one would be PJ alluded to this earlier, but ask good questions. When you turn over a list, do you even whether you're turning so if it's your list, Um, what are you doing with that list? What are you doing with that data? How are you using that list and data? If it's not your list or it's not your data and you are using it, do you own it? Are you leasing it? Like what is what is happening when you you hand over any of your information or when you do so called by something from another organization in terms of data? Do you own it and those kinds of things. But ask good questions and you know, most most of the folks that that we uh come, you know come up against. It is probably the the wrong phrasing, but a lot of folks...

...like there. You know, they're they're open to describing what they do and how they do it. So have that conversation and Um, and look for ways that you can fill gaps. Um. As far as the advice that I would give, when it comes to all of the lists that people have in any institution, they're low hanging fruit, so to speak, is going to be their lift yield list. Those who know the university have some trust in the institution, those are the people, especially because there are there are fewer students and therefore more institutions going after those fewer students. Injecting this into a lift yield campaign. That would be my advice, is how how they can use this to instantly see the return to to help set their their enroll in motion in a predictable and demonstrable way. Marty, thank you very much for that. Both you and PJ have given us and our listeners a lot to think about and, I think, a lot to follow up on. With that in mind, would you both offer contact information for those listeners who would like to reach out to learn more about this topic? Or maybe some of US absolutely want to go first. I'm just going to offer your information. Okay. So, so here's what I'm going back to the beginning of the show here. What I've learned is if you want more to do, call PJ, because every time I have a conversation with this guy I find myself with more to do than when I called them before I called him. So, with that in mind, sure, yeah, my email address is Marty m a R why at Ring Dot Digital, R I N G dot digital, and it's there's no dot com. We get asked that all the time. It's just Marty at ring dot digital, and the same thing is true for our website. If you check out ring dot digital Um and then forward slash higher education Um, that is another great way to just to check out how we've done some some pretty neat things in the Higher Ed space. So and and really we we love to educate. That's the most important thing. We love to educate and we love to see people succeed and as long as those two things are happening, than you know, the world's the world's a better place. Thank you, Marty. Also, PJ, thank you for helping us get this message out and hopefully broadening some minds and giving marketers something else to think about and letting them know what's in store for them in the future. Yeah, there's so many really good things on this episode and I would encourage you to go back and listen to some of it, and you might even want to go back and listen to a few other episodes. I Remember Roosevelt Smith talked about big data on an episode a few a few months ago, Jay Bears, pja referenced earlier. Um. We talked about that, I think, on episode sixty nine, and I think that there's also a really good um discussion in some of this with with the University of Illinois as well, and so take a look at those and listen to those episodes. But I think the thing I want everybody to walk away with and think about is that what you've known as kind of the gold standard, with the cookie based type of ways of of you know lead generation and generating you know, PPC ads, that's gonna Change whether we like it or not. Google's policy of cookie is gonna is going to really change things, uh, in the summer of nine three, and so we've got to really be ready and we've got to start looking and I think PJ's comment about, you know, asking the questions and and really starting to educate yourself is a really good...

...way to look at that and then also kind of open your mind too. I mean I spend my wife and I are kind of addicted to a couple of Um, Hulu episodes, you know Hulu shows, and we watch a Canadian serial show called the Murdoch mysteries and and, uh, they run ads during that and I know that those ads are targeted to my home. I can tell that when I watched the ads, Um. But I think there's a lot of creative things going on and over the top television with the streaming devices, and I think there's also creative divide things going on within our home that are being targeted to our I. P into our to our different devices. And so just start to take a take, Um, take a break and look at that and start to observe how you're being marketed to as a consumer and then kind of flip that around and say, how can I do that for my for my institution? And so I think this has been a great conversation. Thank you, PG, thank you, Marty, and appreciate a lot. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you, guys. The hired marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor's solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by think packing don I almost made it without a mistake. What's the time stamp, Bart? Thank you. I'm going to start that again. The Higher Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by think patented a marketing execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of my co host Bart Kaylor, I'm troy singer. Thanks again for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars do you think the podcast deserves. Until next time, H.

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