The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode · 4 months ago

Message Creation w/ the Caylor Solutions Team

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How do you create upwards of 150 pieces of deliverables for a traditional undergrad campaign designed for enrollment that ranges from direct mail to automation?

We wanted to show you behind the curtain, so to speak, at Caylor Solutions by highlighting the leadership team after their stellar accomplishment on a huge, multifaceted project.

In this roundtable discussion episode, we chat with Caylor’s Matt Bloom , Content Director and Strategist, Jenni Roberts , Creative Director, and Jessi Robbins , Project Manager.

Join us as we discuss:

- Focusing on client victories during the discovery phase

- The AIDA framework: attraction, interest, desire, action

- Creating uniform messaging that is also personal

- How automation is like a magic trick

- Our top takeaways after the execution of the project

Check out this related episode:

Episode 5 w/ Kristi Lafree at Butler 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform. 

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Higher Ed Marketer in your favorite podcast player.

You are listening to the Higher EdMarketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show willtackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations centeredaround where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's getinto the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer Podcast, where weekly weinterview higher read marketers that we like and admire, and that holds to todaybecause I get to interview my colleague and Co host, Bark Taylor, andhis leadership team. A couple of weeks ago, if you listen to theepisode, we interviewed our team at thing patented and we went over the executionside of a OPTI channel marketing campaign. This week we're going to talk aboutthe messaging and also the creative and what goes in on the front end onone of those campaigns. Mart yeah, I'm really excited to talk to theteam. We've got Jenny Roberts, who's our creative director, Matt Bloom,who's our content director, and strategists, and then Jesse Robbins, who's ourproject manager and kind of maintains a lot of this. And we're talking aboutthe same search campaign, you know, purchase name list, that we talkedabout with the think patented team. And again, and in full transparency,it's early in the process, so we're not etioning any names. This isn'tnecessarily case study, it's kind of a best practice is conversation, and sowe really wanted to just take some time to kind of talk through how weapproach a project like this from a creative standpoint, from a messaging standpoint andand what it takes. And at the end you'll kind of get five takeawaysthat I think that you can use in any of your marketing at tactics andthings that you're doing at your school. But I guess without any further Ado, I'm ready to kind of gets bring our team in. Very good here'sthe kylo solutions leadership team. It is my pleasure to welcome into the PODCASTrecording studio the leadership of the Kaylor solutions team, Jesse, Jenny and Matt. Hello all of you. Hey, Triano, we are going to learna little bit more about the Kaylor's side of the projects that think patent didand Kaylor work on a couple of weeks ago. If you've listened to thePODCAST, we talked about delivering of the message and the execution of the message. Today we get to learn about the creation and the thought that goes behindit and what happens up until the execution side. So before we begin,will love to meet each and every one of you, starting off with Jesse, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, your role andwhere you're located in this world. Thanks, Troy. Yes, I'm Jesse Robbins. I have been working with Taylor for the past few years, Ithink as a tragic manager, so that just means that I am the mainpoint of contact between our clients and our internal team and I have the pleasureof working on schedules and timelines and budgets, things like that, just to makesure we stay on trek on our side and to make sure the clientis satisfied at the end. I've loved getting to work with Kayla the pastfew years and I'm actually I'm based in Indianapolis, but soon to be Greenville, South Carolina, lucky you, and just use the one I get towork with the most. As we go through the project. So it's greatto have a conversation formally about the projects we do. Jenny, you're next. All right, thanks, Tory. I am Jenny Roberts and I amthe creative director at Kaylor solutions and I always say, in an effort notto date myself, I won't say how long Bart and I have worked together, but I will say that I have worked with Bart since the inception ofKaylor solutions and I've had a great pleasure and growing in that role and watchingKaylor grow over the years and I just...

...really enjoy working with this team andthe clients that we work with. started out as a graphic designer and reallyfocused on the visual aspect of marketing and communications, but over the years reallyjust fell in love with brand storytelling and not allowed me to grow into thisposition. So I'm thankful for it and happy to be here today. Thankyou, Jenny, and yes, we all know that Bart has a bigfan club. Were you located, by the way? I am actually inHill head, South Carolina, but Bart and I work together for many yearsback in Indianapolis, so we always kind of go back to our midwest rootshere at Taylor Solutions. Yep, thank you, Jenny. And Lastman notleast, Matt. Yeah, thanks, Troy. I am Matt Bloom.I'm a content writer and strategist for killer solutions and I am coming to youfrom Fort Worth, Texas, although I've I've been living here for the lastcouple of years from Indiana, central India, and in fact, a few yearsback I was working for Indiana public radio and Muncie Indiana, and sobeing on this podcast a day it reminds me of my public media roots.That's fine, that is great. And you know, I just thought thatwe meet via zoom and it just doesn't down on me that this team asacross the country, which I think is wonderful, and I think it's toBart's credit that he taps into relationships, keeps them and can do that acrossthe country and deliver a great product. So I think it's time for meto back out of this conversation a little bit and turn it over to Bart. And Bart, if you can lead us through a discussion and help peopleunderstand the messaging in the creative side of the projects that we do together orthat you do with other clients. Yeah, thanks, thanks troy, and thanksJim for being a part of this. You know, it's such a greatthing to kind of have this conversation together and to be together. Wedo a lot of things like this. Zoom is kind of our friend andI tell a lot of people we've been using zoom before it was cool,you know, last five years, just because that's the way Kayli solutions works. Were Virtual Agency, and so we've got team members all around the countryand nearly all around the world to we've got several international team members. Soit's a pleasure to kind of all be together to kind of have this conversationabout some of the projects and we're kind of talking specifically about one project thatwe've been working on that we've been pretty proud of. That kind of representsa lot of other things and I think a lot of times when highed marketers, and the subject of this podcast is hired marketing and and all of uswithin the in the industry of marketing understand that it's pretty pretty diverse. There'sa lot of things that you can do with marketing and a lot of waysthat it can be branded and messaged and executed, and I think sometimes thechallenge is recognizing just how in depth. Sometimes it can be. And andI think the search campaign that we're doing right now for a medium size schoolthat we've you know, and all transparency, been trans been working with think patentedin Troy on that and again we thought it would be fun for anepisode or two just to kind of pull back the curtain and kind of talkabout our own processes and maybe our audience can learn from that. But Ithink it'd be worth just kind of starting a conversation a little bit about whenwe start these campaigns and we start these these projects, it's not just amatter of a couple postcards and a couple email templates. I mean it's alot more and I think troy, you did a great job a couple weeksago talking to Dan and Sean from think patent about really leaning into omnichannel marketingand all the different ways that we can do that. And so I guessI'll open it up first with with Jenny. I think that you know, youand I have worked on several projects across the years and we've done alot of different things. I I think this might be one of the largerprojects that we've kind of accomplished together. Maybe talk a little bit about howyou approach a project like this that is so multifaceted and maybe even just kindof back up and just for a second tell us about how multifaceted it was. Oh Gosh, well, this project.

I mean I think one thing thatI can say about it and that if you do look at it,at it kind of where we ended up and just the amount of materials thatwere great created in the amount of people that came together to bring this tofruition, it could be a little bit overwhelming. But I think one thingthat we have discovered over the years with Taylor solutions is to get started andto really get to know our clients is really the fundamental and foundational aspect ofhow we do what we do, and so, even though this was abigger project, we really started it and approached it in the same way,and that always starts with getting to know our client, with the discovery meeting, and in this instance those discovery meetings kind of grew and grew because whatwe want to ensure that we're doing is not reinventing the wheel for anyone.We want to really highlight brand strengths and come along with our clients for theride and really invite them to kind of celebrate their victories and then we honein on those victories, no matter, you know, small project or bigproject, to meet those communication goals. So and this instance we started thatexact same way and kind of reiterated back to the client what we heard wassuccessful with their messaging and marketing and put together a strategic campaign proposal that thendrilled that down into some audience segments based upon their perspective students. So Iwould say that was kind of a foundation for creative development. But I thinkMatt could really speak to then how, once we had those audiences identified,how we were able to take a cohesive message, highlight their brand and differentiatea little bit depending on who we were talking to. Yeah, and Ijust want to clarify for a moment for everyone that we're talking about a traditionalundergrad search campaign and sometimes people get confused with search searches kind of a industryhistorical term for purchase lists. I mean to be kind of a little bitmore of the way that works in typical marketing circles is that you buy alist of perspective students. In this particular instance we purchased about fifty five thousandnames, but I think that it's important to kind of understand that we're talkingabout a traditional undergrad campaign designed for enrollment, and so, mad I'll let youkind of take it from there. Yeah, and the way that Itend to think about the sort of the prospect journey is using the the Aidaframework, Aida attraction, interest, desire action. It is in some casesa little bit of an an oversimplification. You know, it's not always aperfect straight line that the prospect goes through. In fact, often times, youknow, you can attract them with some advertising or something that that getsthem into the into your communication flow, and they might spend a whole lotof time bouncing back and forth between learning about your institution, that is theinterest phase, and then building desire to take action. And then maybe somethinghappens in their life and they're not quite ready yet and and you know,then they're they're bouncing back to interest and they might sort of you know,not not to go and quite a perfectly linear pattern there. But basically whatwe're trying to do is move them systematically through these different stages. And sofrom a from a content running standpoint, that means that you're not going totalk to somebody who is, you know, just learning about up your institution forthe very first time the same way that you're talking with somebody who hasalready expressed interest. You know, you don't treat somebody who has come tobe a friend of yours the same way that you would treat a stranger.And so the overall strategy is fairly straightforward.

But then executing it and incorporating personalizationinto automation, that's where it starts to get a little bord tricky.You've got these these different, you know, personas that that Jenny was talking about, these groups of prospective students who are interested in different things and youwant to deliver the the right piece of information to each one of them.You know, we've got different sources of information that we can work from.With a purchase list. You know, you've got a little bit of Info. You know you know maybe where they are geographically, you maybe know whathigh school they're coming from. You know some pieces they're what you really wantis information that that you know is is up to date and that the bestinformation is what they're giving you directly. So that's why, for this campaign, we created an interactive landing page we put together. Basically it's a quiz. It's just asking a few questions and in Troy and Bard, I knowyou guys talked about this in that that episode podcast recently, where you areyou're asking them just sort of some fun facts about themselves. You know what'syour what's your favorite food, what your favorite color? But you're also askingsome some substantive questions to you know, you're getting into what their favorite activitieswere in in high school. You're getting into, you know, what theywant to do for a living with they're thinking about career wise, all ofthat information is is gold because they're talking with us. But then in automationyou need to make sure that you're talking back in a way that makes sense. So a big part of the the difficulty here was in determining what's theunderlying logic that we're going to use. And I promise I won't go intotoo much in the weeds about this, but I'll just I'll just do itby telling a little bit to say that with automation you can't just ask openended questions. You can't just say, Hey, you know, what wasyour favorite extra curricular activity in high school, because they could put anything in thatthat space. They might put archery and maybe your school doesn't offer that. So you don't have an answer to that preloaded. Now, if ahuman is going to respond, then they could say, well, you know, we don't have archery, but we have this. But in automation youhave to plan ahead for for what those responses are going to be after sortof limit the parameters there and because you have to, on the other endyou've got all this content loaded up that is keyed into those responses. So, long story short, we we use a lot of spreadsheets to figure out, you know, here's here are the the possible responses they can give us. Here's what we're going to say. If, you know, if theyhave response A, we're going to come back with with x and there's there'sa lot of work that goes into organizing all that in fig and making surethat you're producing a cohesive message that's personalized their interests, and I think that'simportant too. Matt. I just want to point out the fact that bydoing that, two things happen. One, the student feels heard and they theyfeel like the school knows them, gets to know them, and that'sI think that's certainly something in generation Z that a lot of research has beendone. As a generation Z especially once to kind of have that personal interaction. They want to be known, they want to have their, you know, their opinion heard, and so when you're talking to fifty fivezero people,that's hard to do in a personal relationship. And so what we're trying to dothrough automation and through a lot of the things that troy's helping us withis to create that sense of personalization and...

...a sense of being heard and asense of all of that and then utilizing these different tools to be able toachieve that so that when they do engage with a real human being, there'salready been a relationship that's been created, and I think it's it's important too, because I think even even that some of the parent colmflow that we didin part of as part of this program, we were taking some of those factsthat we learned about about the students and we were reflecting those back tothe parents to say, Hey, isn't it cool that junior likes to eatchips and listen to country music when when they study, who would have thought? Well, that creates an dialog opportunity for parent and Child, parent andprospective student that they aren't getting maybe through some other outreaches from some other schoolsthat are just historically just put pumping out all the postcards kind of generalized toeverybody, all the emails that are kind of generalized everybody. We really wantedto avoid that, that noise and really kind of being a lot more focusedand a lot more relevant to the prospective students and parents and I think that, as you said, Matt, we we kind of ended up really likingspreadsheets, which sounds crazy for creatives, but I know Jesse really like spreadsheetsbecause that's she's the one who keeps us all organized. Jesse, tell usa little bit about what that was like. Is, as Matt and Jenny andthe other parts of the team started pulling together these different you know,these different trails that we needed to keep track of. How did you dothat? How did you keep track of that? Well, it became itquickly became clear at the beginning of the project that it wasn't going to bewe weren't going to be able to follow one of our typical processes that wefollow where we just create deliverable send them over to the client. I hada special position where I got to work very closely with the client, veryclosely with our internal team and very closely with the think patented and Bit StormTeam, and so that information not only had to be delivered clearly to theclient, but it really had to be delivered and translated across all of ourdifferent in a way that everyone understood. So yeah, I quickly. Iwas just I remember sitting at my desk and thinking, how are we goingto deliver what became up boards of a Hundred Fifty Pieces of deliverables? Howhow can we deliver that in a way that's clear and then can be thentranslated into the enrollment campaign? And so we did. At the very beginningwe started a mass spreadsheet based off of our strategy, because I think that, I mean I rely very closely on our strategists and Jenny and Matt's brainsto really set the direction. And so we they put together the strategy andoff of that we put together a spreadsheet that laid out every single deliverable thatwe would have, including all of those variations in those customizations. That wewere able to do because of think patented's partnership so if they said they wantedto be a math major, we were able to include those details in thatdeliverable spreadsheet so that it was clear not only to the apple team, forour internal team, but then also to think pended when they did the execution, what we wanted it to say. So it was the spreadsheets were ourfriends, that's for sure, but it keeping it and we also came upwith, quite honestly, some codes so that it wasn't here's direct mail piecethat says x, Y and Z. We came up with a coded system. This is senior piece, one direct mail. We had a whole algorithmto it that we used and so that became common knowledge across the Kaylor.Think pad that in the clients team. Yeah, that's great. I thinkthat. I think that's so important. At that all of that kind ofgot organized and and when you talk about a hundred fifty pieces, we weretalking prior to the recording that that might actually be a little low. Justfor the audience to understand them. I we did a we did a seniorflow, a junior flow, a sophomore...

...flow. Then we also had aparent flow involved in that. That kind of was a sophomore junior, seniorparent flow. Then, on top of that, there were variations depending onthe quiz answers, depending on what they what they did, their actions thatthey did, whether they filled an rfi out, whether they filled out thequiz, whether they ended up, you know, and participating in a madlibstype of type of activity, depending if they opened certain emails, if theylanded on certain landing pages. Then it went to you know, there wasdirect mail, there was email, there was templates for letters, print materialhills, there was a journal that went out customized based on their answers,and then we even got into things like text messaging, ringless voicemail and someother technologies around social match and paper click that went out with the entire mailingprogram so when, Jesse, when you say a hundred fifty items, I'mbeginning to think that it might have even been more than that and that Ithink that coding that you talked about was so critical. Definitely felt like morethan I did, and that coding that you talked about was so critical becausewhen we, you know, we had our our designers that were working onthese different pieces and we had to have the client approving all of these messagingI mean, you know, Matt, Matt and his team are writing variationsof, you know, letters depending on what the you know, that secondpiece of variable content on if they chose this particular set of majors. Andwe're going to talk about this type of outcome. There's a lot of movingparts, ton of moving parts, and I think that goes back again tothe fact that doing this without, you know, understanding the complexity of it. That's why I think that so many times, and you all can kindof chime in if you think that's why I think so many times schools endup only being as successful as they might in these outreach campaigns because it takesa lot of work to get to the level that it's going to be effectiveand I think that we all in high at marketing know the challenge and anyof us who've had kids in the last few years that are of age ofin the college selection and process, we know that. You know, youget home from work and there's maybe five six pieces of mail on the counterfrom all these schools that are prospecting our children. And part of it,I think, and I guess I'd like to kind of talk about this too, is what are some of the things that we do that that really kindof get the attention, you know, not only of of the the prospectivestudents, but of mom and dad, because at the end of the day, all the research shows that mom's the number one influencer for college selection andand even you know, if people go back and listen to the episode withChristy Laffree at Butler University, that comflow was such a big critical part ofour personal experience and and so I don't know a sybody have any thoughts onthat, on just the idea of what that means to kind of get thatattention of the parents and the perspective students early on. Sure I can speakto that a little bit. Matt you said something earlier that I think isreally important to highlight. That relates back to what I said at the beginningand and that coincides with really ensuring that we're listening to our clients and we'realigning with them. So on this particular project, some of those quizzes andsome of those questions that were being asked, some people might say, how isthat relevant? What does that have to do with my child's experience?And for this particular client, we knew that their admissions team was greatly IMPactful in making a personal connection and relationship with respective perspective students. And onething that they pointed out as a lot of times, if they can getthat perspective student on campus, that kind of seals the deal and it's,you know, it's the beginning of that relationship. It's very personal and thatis something that continues throughout the duration of their experience on campus. And sowith this campaign specifically, our goal was...

...to figure out how can we bringthat same level of attention and care to these campaign materials, so really beingpersonal and, you know, Oh, not conversational but, you know,not up tight at the same time, like it was about relationship building andI think in terms of all of the different com flows that were done,you know, we started with Sophomore, went to junior, went to senior. Obviously, at those different stages of initial investigation, the level of interestand just the time devoted to even college research is going to vary greatly,and so we wanted to kind of match that. So the sophomore flow waspretty basic and it was really just ensuring that you understand our mission envision,you understand what our goal is for you, your time on campus and really kindof that high level nurturing aspect, to just stay on the radar asas a sophomore in high school and once you get to that senior level,we have to make sure that the brand message and that messaging is consistent andcohesive, but the level of engagement is vastly different. So it went frombroad to very specific really quickly, just based upon their need as a seniorand, you know, anticipating that during that enrollment phase, the ultimate goalis to get them to apply and then obviously enrolled at once application is accepted. So I hope maybe that helped answer question now. That sounds great.I think you're I think you're exactly right. I think that you know that thewhole notion of really connecting and building the relationship. I thought that wasa really good comment because I think that's at the end of the day,above everything else, whether it's through a student search campaign, whether it's throughColm flow after they've applied, whether it's, you know, wherever it is inthe in the in the journey, it's building that relationship, nurturing thatrelationship and getting that relationship to fruition. Of Matriculation and so and even beyondthat. I mean, you know, studies show that if students have agood experience at college, they end up being donors, and donors then endup to turn into lifelong givers and then they turned into board members and allkinds of good things. And so, so much of this happens at theearly stages of building the relationship. Yeah, just to something real quick to addto that. On this topic of building relationship. There are really substantivethings that matter more than what I'm about to say. But, but,but this, this is a factor. When you are trying to build relationshipswith people through automation, there is this sort of fine line that you walkon the recipient. It's not like they don't know that you're using automation rightlike they don't. They don't really you're not trying to trick them into thinkingthat that you are, you know, setting out one to one communications forevery single person. But they they still you still appreciate the effort. Ikind of think of it in terms of it being almost like a magic trick. Like you, you know that the that the magician is doing an illusion. You know that it's not entirely real, but you appreciate the effort that they'reputting into it and if the magician makes them makes a really big mistake, it just it ruins the whole illusion and it ruins the whole whole effect. And so before when I was talking about building out the the logic,one of the things that you have to think through is how are we goingto use the the inputs that we get from the recipient? If they areselecting something from from a list of responses, are we going to have content that'scoming to the next that's sort of...

...fill in the blank, that says, Hey, you told us you were interested in film the blank. We'dlike to tell you more about that. Well, if they get gave youa response like undecided or I don't know, then what's coming out is, hey, you told us you were interested in I don't know, or,worse, it comes out as you told us you were interested in null fieldor logic error. And so it's important to think through how is this goingto look on the other end? How is this going to affect the studentexperience? If we are trying to get too tricky with this and we're andwe're forgetting what the actual experiences on the other end, then you could endup really just shooting yourself and foot, and then you might as well justgoing back, go back to just doing only human responses. Yeah, well, that you know that you're doing it right. Yeah, that's really goodpoint. That's a great point. I think this has been a great conversation. I'm excited about this and I guess one of the things, Troy,you and I always talked about at the end of the end of the showswith our guests, and it's been wonderful to have this conversation. We alwaystalk about what it's one thing to kind of take away, and I'm goingto start for my team, with with my opinion, and I'd like tohear everybody and tried, like you, to kind of way into at theend, because I think this is all been a team thing. But onething, and that I've that I've heard that I would say as a takeawaythat I would you give to somebody if I were to say, Hey,if there's one thing that I would encourage you to do when you're looking atputting together a search campaign, is keep in mind that it to make itsuccessful, it has to be more than just you talking at people, yougot to start giving them an opportunity to engage with you and to reflect back. And sometimes reflecting back means more than just the standard you know what yearyou graduating and what's your major, and you know the stuff that's going tomake you feel better as a school. But reflect back so that you actuallyshow some interest in these prospective students. And so if that's one thing thatI would give to somebody is to say, as you engage in your marketing,make sure that you recognize it as a two way street rather than justa one way street of you telling go, start conversation. So, Jenny,I'm going to ask you to go next. please. Sure, andI think that's a really hard question because, you know, even just reflecting uponwhat Jesse said, this was such a robust project that we definitely hada lot of great takeaways. But I'm always going to tie it back inas the kind of the passionate one about branding. I think a lot oftimes when we get to know a new client and we especially start to workon a campaign, you know everybody's kind of always excited about this new idea, and we are. What are you going to do for us. It'sto friend and I think one thing that really happens with universities when they're workingwith enroll want materials. They they forget that, especially dealing with, youknow, sophomores to seniors. The amount of time that you have in frontof someone is very, very limited in the beginning. You know, peopleare glancing at an email or glancing at a postcard on the counter when theycome in from school, and so I think in the desire to kind ofup their game, so to speak, they make unnecessary changes and forget aboutthe importance of brand alignment. So just ensuring that your materials are cohesive,they look the same from, you know, things that are going out to asenior student to a sophomores student, because for you it might seem tiredand it might seem old, but your audience is always changing. We wantto build that familiarity. We want to be ensuring that we are aligning withthe mission and vision and things like that. So my big takeaway is don't forgetwhat you're doing. That's good. Stick with it and then the someof the magic comes in and this automation...

...and things like that. That wasdone to really ensure that the engagement was happening at a different level. Great. How about you, Jesse? What would you leave with someone you know? I think it comes down to I mean, looking back on this project, it was three teams of people all in working on this project over aspan of a few months. So I think and I think that the impactof this project, especially with the customization and the personalization we were able todo, is is going to the benefit of that is going to be huge, and I think clients or schools, if they want that, I thinklike knowing that it is going to take we can't do this on our own. It is going to take that manpower and it's going to take your teamcommitting, because the client we were working with, the fit the thing patentedteam, the Kaylor team, we were all in on this, and theclient to their entire team, this was their priority. They were all in, they were engaged, and so I think that's the thing that I wouldtake away is that if you want this, I think that impact of this isgreat, but if you want that, I think realizing first that you haveto go in, all in on that, and you have to realizethe manpower in the team that you need for this is really important on thefront end now, kind of that cut, that commitment. I think you're right. That's great, Matt. How about you? You know, Istruggle to find just one takeaway because there are there are so many. ButI really think that the biggest thing for me as as a content writer isto always remember that the point of all of this is to is to meetyour audience where they are, and all of this effort that we're that we'reputting into automation you it's it's not. It's not to add, you know, unnecessary complexity to messaging. It's not to be fancy. It is toit is to meet prospective students, future students, where they are right nowand where we are doing it with, with a tone and with content thatis, we certainly hope, addressing the concerns that they have, answering thequestions they have. We are, we are helpful in focus, we areessentially it's an extension of the admissions team were we are going out before themand we are providing that that counseling. It's sort of pre counseling, right, we're ushering them along and so automation says, Hey, we see you, we know where you're coming from. We're here to help. That's whatit's all about. Great thanks, Matt Troy. How about you? You'vekind of seen both sides of it. You and I have been on bothsides of it. To tell me a little bit about what your takeaway wouldbe. My biggest takeaway is your team has done a great job of lettingthe prospective students know that you matter and kind of what Matt just said,you meeting them where they are and you're also letting them know we're listening toyou, because each time they saw a postcard, each time they went toa landing page, their name aim was either prepopulated or it was there rightat the very beginning. Then when they would put an input in the nextstep or when we did the next outreach, we would tell them what they toldus and that was very instrumental in helping our client established the foundation ofthat relationship. And then something else I want to make sure that we sayis all during this calm flow we were we were also making sure that theprospective students understood the mission of the school, making sure there was a mission fit, and that was very important to our perspective. Client and I thinkyou did an excellent job of getting to...

...know the prospective student but also lettingthem know about the school and making sure that they realized if they went tothe school, there are certain beliefs, there's a certain culture there that wereally hope they would be comfortable with. So that those are the takeaways thatI wanted to make sure everyone understood about this campaign. That's great. Ithink that winds up our conversation. Bart I appreciate you bringing your team together. Do you have any last thoughts and anything that you can leave us withbefore we sign out? Yeah, the one last thought I would say,and this is something that Matt said earlier that I just wanted to kind ofI wasn't sure if he was going to use it as his as his takeaway, but I'm going to kind of use it as kind of our punctuation atthe end of the end of the podcast, is that we talk a lot aboutautomation. We talk a lot about all kinds of things that are atthe finger tips of marketers these days, whether it's social media, whether it's, you know, paper, Click, social match. There's all kinds oftools out there, but at the end of the day, we're trying tobuild relationships and and we want to maintain the illusion of that relationship. AndI really love that analogy of the magician because I think that sometimes we tendto forget that. We that people understand automation. They understand what's going on. It's not a mystery. But everybody's willing, just like at a magicshow, we're all willing to kind of participate in the illusion where to participatealong the way, but it's it's that one mistake that if that, youknow, if the if the rabbit jumps out of the hat too early orkind of scrolls across the stage, it runs the illusion. It ruins theexperience in it and it changes the dynamic. And so I guess I would takeaway to that as you put together these programs, as you look atall these tools, recognize that they are tools and, like with most tools, there's some safety features and and I would just make sure that as ashighered marketers start to get into these spaces of the automation, of the differenttools, of the different ways of doing that, reach out and ask forhelp, you know, because I mean sometimes there are people who have experiencedin that that have done it before. Don't hesitate to reach out at all. I'll make myself available just if you ever want to have a quick conversation, just to ask how did you do that? You know there's there's nostrings attached. To be happy to share anything with you, and I knowtroy would feel the same way about that. So that's some things I would leavetroy, but it's been a great conversation. I just want to thankmy team for what they've what they've offered. I think you and your team aswell. I would like to say that I often say that Bart andI interview people that we like, it admire in the highered marketing space,and that is so true with the people that I'm spending time with today.So thank you, Matt, Jenny and Jesse. The higher and market ofpodcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education marketing and branding agency and by thinkpatent did, a marketing, execution and printing company providing mailing services to hireED institutions. On behalf of my cohost Bart Taylor and his team, I'mtroy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher EdMarketer to ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player, if you're listening with apple podcasts. We'd lovefor you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the numberof stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,.

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