The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode · 2 months ago

Message Creation w/ the Caylor Solutions Team


How do you create upwards of 150 pieces of deliverables for a traditional undergrad campaign designed for enrollment that ranges from direct mail to automation?

We wanted to show you behind the curtain, so to speak, at Caylor Solutions by highlighting the leadership team after their stellar accomplishment on a huge, multifaceted project.

In this roundtable discussion episode, we chat with Caylor’s Matt Bloom , Content Director and Strategist, Jenni Roberts , Creative Director, and Jessi Robbins , Project Manager.

Join us as we discuss:

- Focusing on client victories during the discovery phase

- The AIDA framework: attraction, interest, desire, action

- Creating uniform messaging that is also personal

- How automation is like a magic trick

- Our top takeaways after the execution of the project

Check out this related episode:

Episode 5 w/ Kristi Lafree at Butler 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform. 

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Higher Ed Marketer in your favorite podcast player.

You were listening to the Higher EdMarketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in highereducation. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to studentrecruitment, donut relations, marketing, trans new technologies and so much more.If you are looking for conversation centered around where the industry isgoing, this podcast is for you, let's get into the show, welcome to the Higher Ed Market Podcast,where weekly we interview higher red marketers that we like and admire, andthat holds to today, because I get to interview my colleague and Co Host BarCayler and his leadership team. A couple of weeks ago, if you listened tothe episode, we interviewed our team at thing patented and we went over theexecution side of a optical marketing campaign this week,we're going to talk about the messaging and also the creative and what goes inon the front in on one of those campaigns: Bart Yeah, I'm reallyexcited to talk to the team. We've got to Jinny Roberts WHO's, our createddirector, Matt, Bloom who's, our content, director and strategist, andthen Jesse robins WHO's, our project manager and who kind of maintains a lotof this and we're talking about the same search campaign. You know apurchase name list that we talked about with the thin patented team and againin in full transparency. It's early in the process, so we're not mentioningany names. This isn't necessarily cay study, it's kind of a best practicesconversation, and so we really wanted to just take some time to kind of talkthrough how we approach a project like this, from a creative standpoint from amessaging standpoint and and what it takes and at the end, you'll kind ofget five takeaways that I think that you can use in any of your marketing tactics and things that you're doing atyour school. But I guess without any further Ado, I'm ready to kind of getbring our team in very good. Here's, the Kelo Solutions, leadership team. It is my pleasure to welcome into thePODCAST recording studio the leadership of the Calor Solutions, team, Jesse,Jenny and Matt. Hello, all of you he tore. We are going to learn a littlebit more about the calor side of the projects that think Patten did and calework on a couple of weeks ago. If you've listened to the PODCAST, wetalked about delivering of the message and the execution of the message. Todaywe get to learn about the creation and the thought that goes behind it andwhat happens up until the execution side. So before we begin, we love tomeet each and every one of you starting off with Jesse. If you could tell us alittle bit about yourself, your role and where you're located in this world,thanks to right, yes, I'm Jesse Robins, I have been working with Cayler for thepast few years, I think as a project manager. So that just means that I amthe main point of contact between our clients and our internal team, and Ihave the pleasure of working on schedules and timelines and budgetsthings like that. Just to make sure we stay on trek on our side and to makesure the client is satisfied at the end, I've loved getting to work with Kalathe past few years and I'm actually I'm based in Indianapolis, but soon to beGreenville, South Carolina, lucky you and just use the one I get to work withthe most as we go through the project. So it's great to have a conversationformally about the projects. We do Jenny, your next all right. Thanks ToryI am Jenny Roberts and I am the creative director at Kaylor solutionsand I always say in an effort not to date myself. I won't say how long Bartihave worked together, but I will say that I have worked with bars since theinception of calor solutions and I've had a great pleasure in growing in thatrole and watching Kaylor grow over the years, and I just really enjoy workingwith this team and the clients that we... with started out as a graphicdesigner and really focused on the visual aspect of marketing andcommunications. But over the years really just fell in love with brandsstory. Telling- and that allowed me to grow into this position, so I'mthankful for it and happy to be here today. Thank you, Genia. Yes, we allknow that Bart has a big fan club. Were you located by the way I amactually in home, head South Carolina, but Bard, and I were together for manyyears back in Indianapolis, so we always kind of go back to our mid Westroots here at Calor Solutions Ye. Thank you, Jenny and last minotle mat yeah. Thanks Troy, I am Matt Bloom, I'ma content, writer, an strategist for killer solutions, and I am coming toyou from Fort Worth Texas. Although I've only been living here for the lastcouple of years, I m from Indiana Central Indiana and in fact, a fewyears back, I was working for Indiana, public radio, in Munsey, Indiana and sobeing on. This podcast a day reminds me of my public media roots. I that isgreat, and you know I just thought that we meet via zoom and it just doesn'tdown on me that this team is across the country, which I think is wonderful andI think it's the barts credit that he taps into relationships keeps them andcan do that across the country and deliver a great product. So I thinkit's time for me to back out of this conversation a little bit and turn itover the Bart and Bart. If you can lead us through a discussion and help peopleunderstand the messaging in the creative side of the projects that wedo together or that you do with other clients yeah thanks thanks, Troy andthanks team for being a part of this, you know it's such a great thing tokind of have this conversation together and to be together. We do a lot ofthings like this. Zoom is kind of our friend and I tell a lot of people.We've been using zoom before it was cool. You know the last five years,just because that's the way, calor solutions works were virtual agency,and so we've got team members. All around the country and nearly allaround the world to we've got several international team members. So it's apleasure to kind of all be together to kind of have this conversation aboutsome of the projects and we're kind of talking specifically about one projectthat we've been working on, that we've been pretty proud of. That kind ofrepresents a lot of other things and I think a lot of times when higher edmarketers and the subject of this podcast is higher and marketing, andall of us, within the in the industry of marketing, understand that it'spretty pretty diverse, there's a lot of things that you can do with marketingin a lot of ways that it can be branded and messaged and executed, and I thinksometimes the challenges is recognizing just how in depth. Sometimes it can be,and I think the search campaign that we're doing right now for a medium sizeschool that we've, you know in all transparent ye been trans, been workingwith, think Patten did and troy on that and again we thought it would be funfor an episode or two just to kind of pull back the curtain and kind of talkabout our own processes, and maybe our audience can learn from that, but Ithink it'd be worth just kind of starting a conversation a little bitabout when we start these campaigns- and we start these these projects- it'snot just a matter of a couple of post cards and a couple of email templates.I mean it's a lot more and I think troy. You did a great job a couple weeks ago,talking to Dan and Sean from think Patten at about you know, reallyleaning into Omni, channel marketing and all the different ways that we cando that, and so I guess I'll open it up. First, with with Jenny, I think thatyou know you and I have worked on several projects across the years andwe've done a lot of different things. I think this might be one of the largerprojects that we've kind of accomplished together. Maybe talk alittle bit about how you approach a project like this, that is somultifaceted and maybe even just kind of back up, and just for a second tellus about how multifaceted it was. Oh...

Gosh, well this project, I mean, Ithink one thing that I can say about it and that if you do look at it, it kindof where we ended up and just the amount of materials that were greatcreated and the amount of people that came together to bring this to fuit. Itcould be a little bit overwhelming, but I think one thing that we havediscovered over the years with calor solutions is to get started and toreally get to know our clients is really the fundamental and foundationalaspect of how we do what we do. And so, even though this was a bigger project,we really started it and approached it in the same way, and that always startswith getting to know our client with the Discovery Meeting and in thisinstance those discovery meetings, kind ofbrewing rue, because what we want to ensure that we're doing is notreinventing the wheel for anyone. We want to really highlight brandstrengths and come along with our clients for the ride and really invitethem to kind of celebrate their victories, and then we hone in on thosevictories, no matter, you know small project or big project to meet thosecommunication goals. So in this instance we started that exact same wayand kind of reiterated back to the client. What we heard was successfulwith our messaging and marketing and put together a Sprattin campaignproposal that then drilled that down into some audience segments based upontheir perspective students. So I would say that was kind of the foundation forcreative development, but I think Matt could really speak to them. How once wehad those audiences identify how we were able to take a cohesive message,highlight their brand and differentiate a little bit depending on who we weretalking to yeah, and I just want to clarify for a moment for everyone thatwe're talking about a traditional undergrad search campaign, andsometimes people get confused with search search, is kind of a industryhistorical term for purchase lists. I mean to be kind of a little bit more ofthe way that works in typical marketing circles is that you buy a list ofperspective students in this particular instance. We purchased about fifty fivethousand names, but I think that it's important to kind of understand thatwe're talking about a traditional Undergrad campaign designed forenrolment and so mad all, let you kind of take it from there yeah, in the waythat I tend to think about. The sort of the prospect journey is using the theADA framework aid, a attraction interest desire action. I it is in somecases a little bit of a of an over simplification. You know it's notalways a perfect straight line that the prospect goes through. In fact,oftentimes. You know you can attract them with some advertising or somethingthat gets them into the into your communication flow and they might spenda whole lot of time bouncing back and forth between learning about yourinstitution. That is the interest phase and then building desire to take action,and then maybe something happens in their life and they're, not quite readyyet- and you know then they're bouncing back to interest, and they might sortof you know not not to go in quite a perfectly linear pattern there. Butbasically, what we're trying to do is move them systematically through thesedifferent stages and so from a from a content running standpoint. That meansthat you're not going to talk to somebody who is you know just learningabout your institution for the very first time, the same way that you'retalking with somebody who has already expressed interest. You know you don'ttreat somebody who has come to be a friend of yours, the same way that youwould treat a stranger, and so the...

...overall strategy is fairlystraightforward, but then executing it and incorporating personalization intoautomation. That's where it starts to get a little more tricky. You've gotthese these different. You know, personas, that that Jenny was talkingabout these groups of of perspective students who are interested indifferent things, and you want to deliver the the right piece ofinformation to each one of them. You know we've got different sources ofinformation that we can work from with a purchase list. You know you've got alittle bit of Info. You know you know, maybe where they are geographically,you maybe know what high school they're coming from. You know some pieces there.What you really want is information that that you know is, is up to dateand that the best information is what they're giving you directly. So that'swhy, for this campaign, we created an interactive landing page we puttogether. Basically it's a quiz, it's just asking a few questions and andTroy and and Bart. I know you guys talked about this in that that episodeof the podcast recently, where you are you're, asking them justsort of some fun facts about themselves. You know, what's your what's yourfavorite food, what's your favorite color, but you're also asking some somesubstantive questions too. You know you're getting into what their favoriteactivities were in in high school you're getting into you know what theywant to do for a living. What they're thinking about career wise? All of thatinformation is, is gold because they're talking with us, but then in automation. You need tomake sure that you're talking back in a way that makes sense. So a big part ofthe the difficulty here was in determining what's the underlying logicthat we're going to use- and I promise I won't go into too much in the weeds-not this, but I'll. Just I just in by tone alittle bit to say that with automation, you can't just ask open into questions.You can't just say hey! You know what was your favorite next extra prreclariactivity in high school because they could put anything in that that spacethey might put archery, and maybe your your school doesn't offer that. So youdon't have an answer to that preloaded. Now, if a human is going to respond,then they could say well, we know we don't have archery, but we have this,but in automation you have to plan a head for for what those responses aregoing to be have to sort of limit the parameters there and because you haveto, on the other end, you've got all this content loaded up. That is keyedinto those responses. So long stories sure we use a lot ofspreadsheets to figuret out. You know. Here's here are the the possibleresponses they can give us here's what we're going to say if, if you know ifthey have response a we're going to come back with with x and there's,there's a lot of worth that goes into organizing all that and fig making surethat you're producing a cohesive message, that's personalized theirinterests and I think that's important to Matt. I just want to point out thefact that by doing that, two things happen, one the student feels heard andthey feel like the school knows them gets to know them and that's, I think,that's certainly something in generation see that a lot of researchhas been done as that generations e, especially once to kind of have thatpersonal interaction they want to be known. They want to have their. Youknow their opinion heard, and so, when you're talking to fifty five thousandpeople that's hard to do in a personal relationship, and so what we're tryingto do through automation and through a lot of the things that troy's helpingus with is to create that sense of...

...a personalization in a sense of beingheard in a sense of all of that, and then utilizing these different tools tobe able to achieve that, so that when they do engage with a real human being,there's already been a relationship, that's been created, and I think it'sit's important to, because I think, even even that some of the parent comflow that we did in part of as part of this program. We were taking some ofthose facts that we learned about about the students and we were reflectingthose back to the parents to say: Hey, isn't it cool that junior likes tochips and listen to country music when they study, who would have thought wellthat creates an dialogue opportunity for parent and Child Parent in theperspective student that they aren't getting, maybe through some other out,reaches from some other schools that are just historically just put pumpingout all the post cards kind of generalized to everybody, all theemails that are kind of generalized everybody. We really wanted to avoidthat that noise and really kind of being a lot more focused in a lot more relevant to theperspective students and parents, and I think that, as you said, that we wekind of ended up really liking spreadsheets, which sounds crazy forcreatives. But I know Jesse really likes spread sheets, because that she's,the one who keeps us all organized Jessie, tell us a little bit about whatthat was like is as mad and Jenny and the other parts of the team startedpulling together these different. You know these different trails that weneeded to keep track of. How did you do that? How did you keep track of that? Well, it became it quickly became clearat the beginning of the project that it wasn't going to be. We weren't going tobe able to follow one of our typical processes that we follow, where we justcreate deliverable send them over to the client. I had a special positionwhere I got to work very closely with the client very closely with ourinternal team and very closely with a thing patented and Bit Storm Team, andso that information not only had to be delivered clearly to the client, but itreally had to be delivered and translated across all of our differentin a way that everyone understood so yeah. I quickly, I was just sit. Iremember sitting at my desk and thinking. How are we going to deliverwhat became upwards of a hundred fifty pieces ofdeliverables? How can we deliver that in a way, that's clear and then can bethen translated into the enrolment campaign, and so we did at the verybeginning. We started a mass spreadsheet based off of ourstrategy, because I think that I mean I rely very closely on our strategistsand Jenny and mat's brains to really set the direction, and so we they puttogether the strategy and off of that, we put together a spreadsheet that laidout every single deliverable that we would have, including all of those variations in those customizations,that we were able to do because of thing patent INS partnership. So ifthey said they wanted to be a math major, we were able to include thosedetails in that deliverable spreadsheet, so that it was clear not only to theBETHEL team to our internal team, but then also to think patented when theydid the execution. What we wanted it to say. So it was the spreadsheets wereour friends, that's for sure, but keeping it, and we also came up with quite honestlysome codes so that it wasn't here's direct male piece that says XYZ. Wecame up with a coded system. This is senior piece, one direct meal. We had awhole algorithm to it that we used, and so that became common knowledge acrossthe Kayler thing pad that in the clients team yeah. That's great. Ithink that I think that's so important that all of that kind of got organizedand- and when you talk about a hundred and fifty pieces, we were talking priorto the recording that that might actually be a little low just for theaudience to understand them. We did a.

We did a senior flow, a junior flow, asophomore flow. Then we also had a parent flow involved in that that kindof was a sophomore junior senior parent flow. Then, on top of that, there werevariations depending on the quiz answers, depending on what they, whatthey did their actions, that they did, whether they filled an rfi out whetherthey filled out the quiz, whether they ended up. You know and participating inin a mad libs type of type of activity, depending if they opened certain emails.If they landed on certain landing pages, then it went to you know there wasdirect mail. There was email, there was templates for letters, print materials.There was a journal that went out customized based on their answers, andthen we even got into things like text messaging, ringless, voice, mail andsome other technologies around social match and paper click that went outwith the entire mailing program. So when Jesse, when you say a hundred andfifty items, I'm beginning to think that it might have even been more thanthat, and that I think that coating that you talked about was so critical.Definitely a did and that coating that you talked about was so critical,because when we you know, we had our our designers that were working onthese different pieces and we had to have the client approving all of thesemessaging. I mean you know Matt Mad and his team or writing. Variations of. Youknow letters depending on what the you know that second piece of variablecontent on if they chose this particular set of majors than we'regoing to talk about this type of outcome. There's a lot of moving partston of moving parts, and I think that goes back again to the fact that doingthis without you know, understanding the complexity of it. That's why Ithink that so many times and you all can kind of chime in. If you think,that's why I think so many times, schools end up only being as successfulas they might in these outreach campaigns, because it takes a lot ofwork to get to the level that it's going to be effective, and I think thatwe all in hired marketing, know the challenge and any of us who've had kidsin the last few years that are of age of in the college selection process. Weknow that you know ye get home from work and there's maybe five six piecesof mail on the counter from all these schools that are prospecting, ourchildren and part of it. I think- and I guess I'd like to kind of talk aboutthis too, is what are some of the things that we do,that that really kind of get the attention you know not only of of thethe perspective students but of mom and dad, because at the end of the day, allthe research shows that mom's the number one influencer for collegeselection and- and even you know if people go back and listen to theepisode with Christie, Lefranc Butler University, that com flow was such abig, critical part of of our personal experience, and- and so I don't know,Ameba have any thoughts on that on just the idea of what that means to kind ofget that attention of the parents and and the perspective students early onsure. I can speak to that a little bit Matt. You said something earlier that Ithink is really important to highlight. That relates back to what I said at thebeginning and and that Coenis was really insuring, that we're listeningto our clients and we're aligning with them so on this particular project.Some of those quizzes and some of those questions that were being asked, somepeople might say how is that relevant? What does thathave to do with my child's experience and for this particular client? We knew that their admissions team wasgreatly impactful in making a personal connection relationship withperspective perspective, students and one thing that they pointed out is alot of times if they can get that perspective student on campus, thatkind of seals the deal and it's you know it's the beginning of thatrelationship, it's very personal, and that is something that continuesthroughout the duration of their experience on campus and so with thiscampaign. Specifically, our goal was to...

...figure out: How can we bring that samelevel of attention and pair to these campaign materials? So really beingpersonal- and you know not conversational, but you know not uptight at the same time like it was about relationship building and I think,in terms of all the different conflows that were done, you know we startedwith sophomore went to junior, went to senior, obviously at those differentstages of initial investigation. The level of interest and just the timedevoted to even college research is going to vary greatly, and so we wantedto kind of match that so the sophomore flow was pretty basic and it was reallyjust ensuring that you understand our mission and vision. You understand whatour goal is for you, your time on campus and really kind of that highlevelnurturing aspect to just stay on the radar as a sophomore in high school.Once you get to that senior level, we have to make sure that the grandmessage and that Messagin is consistent and cohesive, but the level ofengagement is vastly different. So it went from broad to very specific reallyquickly, just based upon their need as a senior, and you know anticipatingthat during that enrollment phase, the ultimate goal is to get them to applyand then obviously in roll once application is accepted. So I hopemaybe that helped answer that question. No, that sounds great, I think you're.I think, you're exactly right. I think that you know that the whole notion ofof really connecting and building the relationship. I thought that was areally good comment, because I think that's at the end of the day, aboveeverything else, whether it's through a student search campaign, whether it'sthrough com flow after they've, applied, whether it's you know wherever it is inthe in the in the journey. It's building that relationship nurturingthat relationship and getting that relationship to fruition ofmatriculation and so and even beyond that I mean you know. Studies show thatif students have a good experience at college, they end up being donors anddonors then end up to turn into life, long givers, and then they turned intoboard members and all kinds of good things, and so so much of this happensat the early stages of building the relationship. Yeah, just a somethingreal, quick to end to that. On this topic of building relationship, thereare really substantive things that matter more than what I'm about to say,but but this this is a factor when you are trying to build relationships withpeople through automation. There is this sort of fine line that you walk onthe recipient. It's not like. They don't know that you're using automationright like they, don't they don't really you're, not trying to trick theminto thinking that that you are, you know, sending out one to onecommunications for every single person, but they they still. You stillappreciate the effort I kind of think of it in terms of it being almost likea magic trick, like you know that the that the magician is doing an illusion.You know that it's not entirely real, but you appreciate the effort at thatthey're putting into it and if the magician makes him makes a really bigmistake, it just it ruins the whole illusion and it ruins the whole wholeeffect, and so before, when I was talking about building out the logic,one of the things that you have to think through is how are we going touse the the inputs that we get from the recipient if they are selectingsomething from from a list of responses? Are we going to have content? That'scoming to the next that sort of fill in...

...the blank that says? Hey you told us,you were interested in film the blank we'd like to tell you more about that.Well, if they get gave you a response like undecided or I don't know thenwhat's coming out is hey you told us, you were interested in, I don't know orworse it comes out. As you told us, you were interested in no field or logic error, and so it's important tothink through. How is this going to look on the other end? How is thisgoing to affect the students experience if we are trying to get too tricky withthis and were and we're forgetting what the actual experiences on the other end,then you could end up really just shooting yourself in foot and then youmight as well just going back go back to just doing only human responses yeahwell that you know that you're doing it right, yeah! That's a really good point.That's a great point! I think this has been a greatconversation. I'm excited about this and I guess one of the things troy youand I always talk about at the end of the end, to the shows with our guests,and it's been wonderful to have this conversation. We always talk about whatit's one thing to kind of take away, and I'm going to start for my team with,with my opinion and I'd like to hear everybody and try 'd like you to kindof weigh into at the end, because I think this has all been a team thing,but one thing and that I ve that I've heard that I would say as a takeawaythat I would you know give to somebody if I were to say hey. If there's onething that I would encourage you to do when you're looking at putting togethera search campaign, is keep in mind that it to make it successful. It has to bemore than just you talking at people. You got to start giving them anopportunity to engage with you and to reflect back and sometimes reflectingback means more than just the standard. You know what year are you graduatingand what's your major and you know the stuff that's going to make you feelbetter as a school, but reflect back so that you actually show some interest inthese perspective students. And so, if that's one thing that I would give to,somebody is to say, as you engage in your marketing, make sure that yourecognize it as a two way street rather than just a one way street of youtelling go started conversation so Jenny, I'm gonna ask you to go next,please, sir, and I think that's a really hard question, because you knoweven just reflecting upon what Jessie said. This was such a robust projectthat we've definitely had a lot of great takeaways, but I'm always goingto tie it back in as the kind of the passionate one about branding. I thinka lot of times when we get to know a new client and we especially start towork on a campaign. You know everybody is kind of always excited about thisnew idea and we a what are you going to do for us? It's different and I thinkone thing that really happens with universities when they're working withenrollment materials. They forget that especially dealingwith you know, sophomores to seniors the amount of time that you have infront of someone is very, very limited. In the beginning, you know people aregoing and scene at an email, ther glancing at a post card on the counterwhen they come in from school, and so I think in the desire to kind of up theirgame so to speak, they make unnecessary changes and forget about the importanceof brand alignment, so just ensuring that your materials are cohesive. Theylook the same from you know things that are going out to a senior student to asophomore student because for you it might seem tired and it might seem old,but your audience is always changing. We want to build that familiarity. Wewant to be ensuring that we are lining with the mission and vision, and thingslike that. So my big takeaway is don't forget what you're doing that's good,stick with it and then some of the magic comes in and and this automationand things like that. That was done to...

...really ensure that the engagement washappening at a different level. Great. How about you Jesse? What would youleave with someone? You know I think it comes down to. I mean looking back onthis project. It was three teams of people all in working on this projectover a span of a few months, so I think- and I think that the impact of thisproject, especially with the customization and the personalizationwe were able to do, is- is going to the benefit of that is going to be huge andI think, clients or schools if they want that. I think like knowing that itis going to take. We can't do this on our own. It is going to take that manpower and it's going to take your team committing because the client we wereworking with the the thing panted team, the Kaler team. We were all in on thisand the client to their entire team. This was their priority. They were allin, they were engaged, and so I think that's the the thing that I would takeaway is that if you want this, I think that impact of this is great. But ifyou want that, I think realizing first, that you have to go in all in on that,and you have to realize the the man power in the team that you need, forthis is really important on the front end. Ye kind of that cut thatcommitment. I think, you're right, that's great mad. How about you! You know I struggle to find just onetakeaway, because there are there are so many, but I really think that thebiggest thing for me, as as a content writer, is toalways remember that the point of all of this is to is to meet your audiencewhere they are and all of this effort that we re thatwe're putting into automation. It's it's, not it's not to add. You knowunnecessary complexity to messaging, it's not to be fancy. It is to it is,to meet perspective students, future students where they are right now andwhere we are doing it with with a tone and with content. That is, we certainlyhope addressing the concerns that they have answering the questions they have.We are, we are helpful in focus. We are essentially e an extension of the admissions teamwere we are going out before them and we are providing that that counseling,it's sort of pre counseling right we're, ushering them along and so automationsays: Hey we see you. We know where you're coming from we'rehere to help that's what it's all about great thanks, Mad Troy, how about youyou've kind of seen both sides of it? You and I have been on both sides of ittoo, to tell me little bit about what your your takeaway would be. My biggest takeaway is your team hasdone a great job of letting the prospective students know that youmatter and kind of what Matt just said You meeting them where they are andyou're also letting them know we're listening to you, because each timethey saw a post card each time they went to alanding page. Their name was either pre populated or it was there right at thevery beginning. Then, when they would put an input in the next step or whenwe did the next outreach, we would tell them what they told us, and that wasvery instrumental in helping our client establish the foundation of thatrelationship and then something else I want to make sure that we say is allduring this calm flow we were. We were also making sure that the prospective students understood themission of the school making sure there was a mission fit, and that was veryimportant to our perspective client,...

...and I think you did an excellent job ofgetting to know the perspective student, but also letting them know about theschool and making sure that they realized. If they went to the school.There are certain beliefs, there's a certain culture there that we reallyhope they would be comfortable with, so that those are the take aways that Iwanted to make sure everyone understood about this campaign. That's great! Ithink that winds up our conversation Bart, I appreciate you bringing yourteam together. Do you have any last thoughts and anything that you canleave us with before we sign out yeah? The one last thought I would say- andthis is something that Matt said earlier- that I just wanted to kind of.I wasn't sure if he was going to use it as his as his takeaway, but I'm goingto kind of use it as kind of our punctuation at the end of the end ofthe podcast. Is that we talk a lot about automation. We talk a lot aboutall kinds of things that are at the finger tips of marketers these days,whether it's social media, whether it's you know paper, click social match,there's all kinds of tools out there, but at the end of the day we're tryingto build relationships, and- and we want to maintain the illusion of thatrelationship- and I really love that analogy of the magician, because Ithink that sometimes we tend to forget that we that people understandautomation they understand. What's going on. It's not a mystery, buteverybody's willing, just like at a magic show we're all willing to kind ofparticipate in the illusion. Were to participate along the way, but it'sthat one mistake that if that you know if the, if the rabbit jumps out of thehat too early or kind of scrolls across the stage, it runs the illusion, itruins the experience in it and it changes the dynamic. And so I guess Iwould take a way to that. As you put together these programs as you look atall, these tools recognize that they are tools and like with most tools.There's some safety features and- and I would just make sure that, as as highered marketers start to get into these spaces of of the automation of thedifferent tools of the different ways of doing that, reach out and ask forhelp. You know, because I mean sometimes there are people who haveexperience in that that have done it before don't hesitate to reach out andI'll make myself available. Just if you ever want to have a quick conversationjust to ask, how did you do that? You know: There's there's no stringsattached. I be happy to share anything with you, and I know troy would feelthe same way about that. So that's some things I would leave troy, but it'sbeen a great conversation and I just want to thank my team for what they'vewhat they've offered. I thank you and your team as well. I would like to saythat I often say that Bardon I interview people that we like it admire in the highreared space, and that is so true with the people that I'mspending time with today. So thank you. Matt Jenny and Jesse. The higher andMarge podcast is sponsored by Kaler solutions and education, marketing andbranding agency and by thing patented, a marketing execution in printingcompany providing mailing services to hire ad institutions. On behalf of myco host Bar Kaylor and his team, I'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher EdMarketer to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the show inyour favorite podcast player. If you are listening without Le Podcast we'dlove for you to leave a quick rating of the show, simply tap the number ofstars, you think the podcast deserves until next time. I.

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