The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode · 1 year ago

Message Creation w/ the Caylor Solutions Team


How do you create upwards of 150 pieces of deliverables for a traditional undergrad campaign designed for enrollment that ranges from direct mail to automation?

We wanted to show you behind the curtain, so to speak, at Caylor Solutions by highlighting the leadership team after their stellar accomplishment on a huge, multifaceted project.

In this roundtable discussion episode, we chat with Caylor’s Matt Bloom , Content Director and Strategist, Jenni Roberts , Creative Director, and Jessi Robbins , Project Manager.

Join us as we discuss:

- Focusing on client victories during the discovery phase

- The AIDA framework: attraction, interest, desire, action

- Creating uniform messaging that is also personal

- How automation is like a magic trick

- Our top takeaways after the execution of the project

Check out this related episode:

Episode 5 w/ Kristi Lafree at Butler 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or your preferred podcast platform. 

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You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher Ed Marketer Podcast, where weekly we interview higher read marketers that we like and admire, and that holds to today because I get to interview my colleague and Co host, Bark Taylor, and his leadership team. A couple of weeks ago, if you listen to the episode, we interviewed our team at thing patented and we went over the execution side of a OPTI channel marketing campaign. This week we're going to talk about the messaging and also the creative and what goes in on the front end on one of those campaigns. Mart yeah, I'm really excited to talk to the team. We've got Jenny Roberts, who's our creative director, Matt Bloom, who's our content director, and strategists, and then Jesse Robbins, who's our project manager and kind of maintains a lot of this. And we're talking about the same search campaign, you know, purchase name list, that we talked about with the think patented team. And again, and in full transparency, it's early in the process, so we're not etioning any names. This isn't necessarily case study, it's kind of a best practice is conversation, and so we really wanted to just take some time to kind of talk through how we approach a project like this from a creative standpoint, from a messaging standpoint and and what it takes. And at the end you'll kind of get five takeaways that I think that you can use in any of your marketing at tactics and things that you're doing at your school. But I guess without any further Ado, I'm ready to kind of gets bring our team in. Very good here's the kylo solutions leadership team. It is my pleasure to welcome into the PODCAST recording studio the leadership of the Kaylor solutions team, Jesse, Jenny and Matt. Hello all of you. Hey, Triano, we are going to learn a little bit more about the Kaylor's side of the projects that think patent did and Kaylor work on a couple of weeks ago. If you've listened to the PODCAST, we talked about delivering of the message and the execution of the message. Today we get to learn about the creation and the thought that goes behind it and what happens up until the execution side. So before we begin, will love to meet each and every one of you, starting off with Jesse, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, your role and where you're located in this world. Thanks, Troy. Yes, I'm Jesse Robbins. I have been working with Taylor for the past few years, I think as a tragic manager, so that just means that I am the main point of contact between our clients and our internal team and I have the pleasure of working on schedules and timelines and budgets, things like that, just to make sure we stay on trek on our side and to make sure the client is satisfied at the end. I've loved getting to work with Kayla the past few years and I'm actually I'm based in Indianapolis, but soon to be Greenville, South Carolina, lucky you, and just use the one I get to work with the most. As we go through the project. So it's great to have a conversation formally about the projects we do. Jenny, you're next. All right, thanks, Tory. I am Jenny Roberts and I am the creative director at Kaylor solutions and I always say, in an effort not to date myself, I won't say how long Bart and I have worked together, but I will say that I have worked with Bart since the inception of Kaylor solutions and I've had a great pleasure and growing in that role and watching Kaylor grow over the years and I just...

...really enjoy working with this team and the clients that we work with. started out as a graphic designer and really focused on the visual aspect of marketing and communications, but over the years really just fell in love with brand storytelling and not allowed me to grow into this position. So I'm thankful for it and happy to be here today. Thank you, Jenny, and yes, we all know that Bart has a big fan club. Were you located, by the way? I am actually in Hill head, South Carolina, but Bart and I work together for many years back in Indianapolis, so we always kind of go back to our midwest roots here at Taylor Solutions. Yep, thank you, Jenny. And Lastman not least, Matt. Yeah, thanks, Troy. I am Matt Bloom. I'm a content writer and strategist for killer solutions and I am coming to you from Fort Worth, Texas, although I've I've been living here for the last couple of years from Indiana, central India, and in fact, a few years back I was working for Indiana public radio and Muncie Indiana, and so being on this podcast a day it reminds me of my public media roots. That's fine, that is great. And you know, I just thought that we meet via zoom and it just doesn't down on me that this team as across the country, which I think is wonderful, and I think it's to Bart's credit that he taps into relationships, keeps them and can do that across the country and deliver a great product. So I think it's time for me to back out of this conversation a little bit and turn it over to Bart. And Bart, if you can lead us through a discussion and help people understand the messaging in the creative side of the projects that we do together or that you do with other clients. Yeah, thanks, thanks troy, and thanks Jim for being a part of this. You know, it's such a great thing to kind of have this conversation together and to be together. We do a lot of things like this. Zoom is kind of our friend and I tell a lot of people we've been using zoom before it was cool, you know, last five years, just because that's the way Kayli solutions works. Were Virtual Agency, and so we've got team members all around the country and nearly all around the world to we've got several international team members. So it's a pleasure to kind of all be together to kind of have this conversation about some of the projects and we're kind of talking specifically about one project that we've been working on that we've been pretty proud of. That kind of represents a lot of other things and I think a lot of times when highed marketers, and the subject of this podcast is hired marketing and and all of us within the in the industry of marketing understand that it's pretty pretty diverse. There's a lot of things that you can do with marketing and a lot of ways that it can be branded and messaged and executed, and I think sometimes the challenge is recognizing just how in depth. Sometimes it can be. And and I think the search campaign that we're doing right now for a medium size school that we've you know, and all transparency, been trans been working with think patented in Troy on that and again we thought it would be fun for an episode or two just to kind of pull back the curtain and kind of talk about our own processes and maybe our audience can learn from that. But I think it'd be worth just kind of starting a conversation a little bit about when we start these campaigns and we start these these projects, it's not just a matter of a couple postcards and a couple email templates. I mean it's a lot more and I think troy, you did a great job a couple weeks ago talking to Dan and Sean from think patent about really leaning into omnichannel marketing and all the different ways that we can do that. And so I guess I'll open it up first with with Jenny. I think that you know, you and I have worked on several projects across the years and we've done a lot of different things. I I think this might be one of the larger projects that we've kind of accomplished together. Maybe talk a little bit about how you approach a project like this that is so multifaceted and maybe even just kind of back up and just for a second tell us about how multifaceted it was. Oh Gosh, well, this project.

I mean I think one thing that I can say about it and that if you do look at it, at it kind of where we ended up and just the amount of materials that were great created in the amount of people that came together to bring this to fruition, it could be a little bit overwhelming. But I think one thing that we have discovered over the years with Taylor solutions is to get started and to really get to know our clients is really the fundamental and foundational aspect of how we do what we do, and so, even though this was a bigger project, we really started it and approached it in the same way, and that always starts with getting to know our client, with the discovery meeting, and in this instance those discovery meetings kind of grew and grew because what we want to ensure that we're doing is not reinventing the wheel for anyone. We want to really highlight brand strengths and come along with our clients for the ride and really invite them to kind of celebrate their victories and then we hone in on those victories, no matter, you know, small project or big project, to meet those communication goals. So and this instance we started that exact same way and kind of reiterated back to the client what we heard was successful with their messaging and marketing and put together a strategic campaign proposal that then drilled that down into some audience segments based upon their perspective students. So I would say that was kind of a foundation for creative development. But I think Matt could really speak to then how, once we had those audiences identified, how we were able to take a cohesive message, highlight their brand and differentiate a little bit depending on who we were talking to. Yeah, and I just want to clarify for a moment for everyone that we're talking about a traditional undergrad search campaign and sometimes people get confused with search searches kind of a industry historical term for purchase lists. I mean to be kind of a little bit more of the way that works in typical marketing circles is that you buy a list of perspective students. In this particular instance we purchased about fifty five thousand names, but I think that it's important to kind of understand that we're talking about a traditional undergrad campaign designed for enrollment, and so, mad I'll let you kind of take it from there. Yeah, and the way that I tend to think about the sort of the prospect journey is using the the Aida framework, Aida attraction, interest, desire action. It is in some cases a little bit of an an oversimplification. You know, it's not always a perfect straight line that the prospect goes through. In fact, often times, you know, you can attract them with some advertising or something that that gets them into the into your communication flow, and they might spend a whole lot of time bouncing back and forth between learning about your institution, that is the interest phase, and then building desire to take action. And then maybe something happens in their life and they're not quite ready yet and and you know, then they're they're bouncing back to interest and they might sort of you know, not not to go and quite a perfectly linear pattern there. But basically what we're trying to do is move them systematically through these different stages. And so from a from a content running standpoint, that means that you're not going to talk to somebody who is, you know, just learning about up your institution for the very first time the same way that you're talking with somebody who has already expressed interest. You know, you don't treat somebody who has come to be a friend of yours the same way that you would treat a stranger. And so the overall strategy is fairly straightforward.

But then executing it and incorporating personalization into automation, that's where it starts to get a little bord tricky. You've got these these different, you know, personas that that Jenny was talking about, these groups of prospective students who are interested in different things and you want to deliver the the right piece of information to each one of them. You know, we've got different sources of information that we can work from. With a purchase list. You know, you've got a little bit of Info. You know you know maybe where they are geographically, you maybe know what high school they're coming from. You know some pieces they're what you really want is information that that you know is is up to date and that the best information is what they're giving you directly. So that's why, for this campaign, we created an interactive landing page we put together. Basically it's a quiz. It's just asking a few questions and in Troy and Bard, I know you guys talked about this in that that episode podcast recently, where you are you're asking them just sort of some fun facts about themselves. You know what's your what's your favorite food, what your favorite color? But you're also asking some some substantive questions to you know, you're getting into what their favorite activities were in in high school. You're getting into, you know, what they want to do for a living with they're thinking about career wise, all of that information is is gold because they're talking with us. But then in automation you need to make sure that you're talking back in a way that makes sense. So a big part of the the difficulty here was in determining what's the underlying logic that we're going to use. And I promise I won't go into too much in the weeds about this, but I'll just I'll just do it by telling a little bit to say that with automation you can't just ask open ended questions. You can't just say, Hey, you know, what was your favorite extra curricular activity in high school, because they could put anything in that that space. They might put archery and maybe your school doesn't offer that. So you don't have an answer to that preloaded. Now, if a human is going to respond, then they could say, well, you know, we don't have archery, but we have this. But in automation you have to plan ahead for for what those responses are going to be after sort of limit the parameters there and because you have to, on the other end you've got all this content loaded up that is keyed into those responses. So, long story short, we we use a lot of spreadsheets to figure out, you know, here's here are the the possible responses they can give us. Here's what we're going to say. If, you know, if they have response A, we're going to come back with with x and there's there's a lot of work that goes into organizing all that in fig and making sure that you're producing a cohesive message that's personalized their interests, and I think that's important too. Matt. I just want to point out the fact that by doing that, two things happen. One, the student feels heard and they they feel like the school knows them, gets to know them, and that's I think that's certainly something in generation Z that a lot of research has been done. As a generation Z especially once to kind of have that personal interaction. They want to be known, they want to have their, you know, their opinion heard, and so when you're talking to fifty fivezero people, that's hard to do in a personal relationship. And so what we're trying to do through automation and through a lot of the things that troy's helping us with is to create that sense of personalization and...

...a sense of being heard and a sense of all of that and then utilizing these different tools to be able to achieve that so that when they do engage with a real human being, there's already been a relationship that's been created, and I think it's it's important too, because I think even even that some of the parent colmflow that we did in part of as part of this program, we were taking some of those facts that we learned about about the students and we were reflecting those back to the parents to say, Hey, isn't it cool that junior likes to eat chips and listen to country music when when they study, who would have thought? Well, that creates an dialog opportunity for parent and Child, parent and prospective student that they aren't getting maybe through some other outreaches from some other schools that are just historically just put pumping out all the postcards kind of generalized to everybody, all the emails that are kind of generalized everybody. We really wanted to avoid that, that noise and really kind of being a lot more focused and a lot more relevant to the prospective students and parents and I think that, as you said, Matt, we we kind of ended up really liking spreadsheets, which sounds crazy for creatives, but I know Jesse really like spreadsheets because that's she's the one who keeps us all organized. Jesse, tell us a little bit about what that was like. Is, as Matt and Jenny and the other parts of the team started pulling together these different you know, these different trails that we needed to keep track of. How did you do that? How did you keep track of that? Well, it became it quickly became clear at the beginning of the project that it wasn't going to be we weren't going to be able to follow one of our typical processes that we follow where we just create deliverable send them over to the client. I had a special position where I got to work very closely with the client, very closely with our internal team and very closely with the think patented and Bit Storm Team, and so that information not only had to be delivered clearly to the client, but it really had to be delivered and translated across all of our different in a way that everyone understood. So yeah, I quickly. I was just I remember sitting at my desk and thinking, how are we going to deliver what became up boards of a Hundred Fifty Pieces of deliverables? How how can we deliver that in a way that's clear and then can be then translated into the enrollment campaign? And so we did. At the very beginning we started a mass spreadsheet based off of our strategy, because I think that, I mean I rely very closely on our strategists and Jenny and Matt's brains to really set the direction. And so we they put together the strategy and off of that we put together a spreadsheet that laid out every single deliverable that we would have, including all of those variations in those customizations. That we were able to do because of think patented's partnership so if they said they wanted to be a math major, we were able to include those details in that deliverable spreadsheet so that it was clear not only to the apple team, for our internal team, but then also to think pended when they did the execution, what we wanted it to say. So it was the spreadsheets were our friends, that's for sure, but it keeping it and we also came up with, quite honestly, some codes so that it wasn't here's direct mail piece that says x, Y and Z. We came up with a coded system. This is senior piece, one direct mail. We had a whole algorithm to it that we used and so that became common knowledge across the Kaylor. Think pad that in the clients team. Yeah, that's great. I think that. I think that's so important. At that all of that kind of got organized and and when you talk about a hundred fifty pieces, we were talking prior to the recording that that might actually be a little low. Just for the audience to understand them. I we did a we did a senior flow, a junior flow, a sophomore...

...flow. Then we also had a parent flow involved in that. That kind of was a sophomore junior, senior parent flow. Then, on top of that, there were variations depending on the quiz answers, depending on what they what they did, their actions that they did, whether they filled an rfi out, whether they filled out the quiz, whether they ended up, you know, and participating in a madlibs type of type of activity, depending if they opened certain emails, if they landed on certain landing pages. Then it went to you know, there was direct mail, there was email, there was templates for letters, print material hills, there was a journal that went out customized based on their answers, and then we even got into things like text messaging, ringless voicemail and some other technologies around social match and paper click that went out with the entire mailing program so when, Jesse, when you say a hundred fifty items, I'm beginning to think that it might have even been more than that and that I think that coding that you talked about was so critical. Definitely felt like more than I did, and that coding that you talked about was so critical because when we, you know, we had our our designers that were working on these different pieces and we had to have the client approving all of these messaging I mean, you know, Matt, Matt and his team are writing variations of, you know, letters depending on what the you know, that second piece of variable content on if they chose this particular set of majors. And we're going to talk about this type of outcome. There's a lot of moving parts, ton of moving parts, and I think that goes back again to the fact that doing this without, you know, understanding the complexity of it. That's why I think that so many times, and you all can kind of chime in if you think that's why I think so many times schools end up only being as successful as they might in these outreach campaigns because it takes a lot of work to get to the level that it's going to be effective and I think that we all in high at marketing know the challenge and any of us who've had kids in the last few years that are of age of in the college selection and process, we know that. You know, you get home from work and there's maybe five six pieces of mail on the counter from all these schools that are prospecting our children. And part of it, I think, and I guess I'd like to kind of talk about this too, is what are some of the things that we do that that really kind of get the attention, you know, not only of of the the prospective students, but of mom and dad, because at the end of the day, all the research shows that mom's the number one influencer for college selection and and even you know, if people go back and listen to the episode with Christy Laffree at Butler University, that comflow was such a big critical part of our personal experience and and so I don't know a sybody have any thoughts on that, on just the idea of what that means to kind of get that attention of the parents and the perspective students early on. Sure I can speak to that a little bit. Matt you said something earlier that I think is really important to highlight. That relates back to what I said at the beginning and and that coincides with really ensuring that we're listening to our clients and we're aligning with them. So on this particular project, some of those quizzes and some of those questions that were being asked, some people might say, how is that relevant? What does that have to do with my child's experience? And for this particular client, we knew that their admissions team was greatly IMP actful in making a personal connection and relationship with respective perspective students. And one thing that they pointed out as a lot of times, if they can get that perspective student on campus, that kind of seals the deal and it's, you know, it's the beginning of that relationship. It's very personal and that is something that continues throughout the duration of their experience on campus. And so with this campaign specifically, our goal was... figure out how can we bring that same level of attention and care to these campaign materials, so really being personal and, you know, Oh, not conversational but, you know, not up tight at the same time, like it was about relationship building and I think in terms of all of the different com flows that were done, you know, we started with Sophomore, went to junior, went to senior. Obviously, at those different stages of initial investigation, the level of interest and just the time devoted to even college research is going to vary greatly, and so we wanted to kind of match that. So the sophomore flow was pretty basic and it was really just ensuring that you understand our mission envision, you understand what our goal is for you, your time on campus and really kind of that high level nurturing aspect, to just stay on the radar as as a sophomore in high school and once you get to that senior level, we have to make sure that the brand message and that messaging is consistent and cohesive, but the level of engagement is vastly different. So it went from broad to very specific really quickly, just based upon their need as a senior and, you know, anticipating that during that enrollment phase, the ultimate goal is to get them to apply and then obviously enrolled at once application is accepted. So I hope maybe that helped answer question now. That sounds great. I think you're I think you're exactly right. I think that you know that the whole notion of really connecting and building the relationship. I thought that was a really good comment because I think that's at the end of the day, above everything else, whether it's through a student search campaign, whether it's through Colm flow after they've applied, whether it's, you know, wherever it is in the in the in the journey, it's building that relationship, nurturing that relationship and getting that relationship to fruition. Of Matriculation and so and even beyond that. I mean, you know, studies show that if students have a good experience at college, they end up being donors, and donors then end up to turn into lifelong givers and then they turned into board members and all kinds of good things. And so, so much of this happens at the early stages of building the relationship. Yeah, just to something real quick to add to that. On this topic of building relationship. There are really substantive things that matter more than what I'm about to say. But, but, but this, this is a factor. When you are trying to build relationships with people through automation, there is this sort of fine line that you walk on the recipient. It's not like they don't know that you're using automation right like they don't. They don't really you're not trying to trick them into thinking that that you are, you know, setting out one to one communications for every single person. But they they still you still appreciate the effort. I kind of think of it in terms of it being almost like a magic trick. Like you, you know that the that the magician is doing an illusion. You know that it's not entirely real, but you appreciate the effort that they're putting into it and if the magician makes them makes a really big mistake, it just it ruins the whole illusion and it ruins the whole whole effect. And so before when I was talking about building out the the logic, one of the things that you have to think through is how are we going to use the the inputs that we get from the recipient? If they are selecting something from from a list of responses, are we going to have content that's coming to the next that's sort of...

...fill in the blank, that says, Hey, you told us you were interested in film the blank. We'd like to tell you more about that. Well, if they get gave you a response like undecided or I don't know, then what's coming out is, hey, you told us you were interested in I don't know, or, worse, it comes out as you told us you were interested in null field or logic error. And so it's important to think through how is this going to look on the other end? How is this going to affect the student experience? If we are trying to get too tricky with this and we're and we're forgetting what the actual experiences on the other end, then you could end up really just shooting yourself and foot, and then you might as well just going back, go back to just doing only human responses. Yeah, well, that you know that you're doing it right. Yeah, that's really good point. That's a great point. I think this has been a great conversation. I'm excited about this and I guess one of the things, Troy, you and I always talked about at the end of the end of the shows with our guests, and it's been wonderful to have this conversation. We always talk about what it's one thing to kind of take away, and I'm going to start for my team, with with my opinion, and I'd like to hear everybody and tried, like you, to kind of way into at the end, because I think this is all been a team thing. But one thing, and that I've that I've heard that I would say as a takeaway that I would you give to somebody if I were to say, Hey, if there's one thing that I would encourage you to do when you're looking at putting together a search campaign, is keep in mind that it to make it successful, it has to be more than just you talking at people, you got to start giving them an opportunity to engage with you and to reflect back. And sometimes reflecting back means more than just the standard you know what year you graduating and what's your major, and you know the stuff that's going to make you feel better as a school. But reflect back so that you actually show some interest in these prospective students. And so if that's one thing that I would give to somebody is to say, as you engage in your marketing, make sure that you recognize it as a two way street rather than just a one way street of you telling go, start conversation. So, Jenny, I'm going to ask you to go next. please. Sure, and I think that's a really hard question because, you know, even just reflecting upon what Jesse said, this was such a robust project that we definitely had a lot of great takeaways. But I'm always going to tie it back in as the kind of the passionate one about branding. I think a lot of times when we get to know a new client and we especially start to work on a campaign, you know everybody's kind of always excited about this new idea, and we are. What are you going to do for us. It's to friend and I think one thing that really happens with universities when they're working with enroll want materials. They they forget that, especially dealing with, you know, sophomores to seniors. The amount of time that you have in front of someone is very, very limited in the beginning. You know, people are glancing at an email or glancing at a postcard on the counter when they come in from school, and so I think in the desire to kind of up their game, so to speak, they make unnecessary changes and forget about the importance of brand alignment. So just ensuring that your materials are cohesive, they look the same from, you know, things that are going out to a senior student to a sophomores student, because for you it might seem tired and it might seem old, but your audience is always changing. We want to build that familiarity. We want to be ensuring that we are aligning with the mission and vision and things like that. So my big takeaway is don't forget what you're doing. That's good. Stick with it and then the some of the magic comes in and this automation...

...and things like that. That was done to really ensure that the engagement was happening at a different level. Great. How about you, Jesse? What would you leave with someone you know? I think it comes down to I mean, looking back on this project, it was three teams of people all in working on this project over a span of a few months. So I think and I think that the impact of this project, especially with the customization and the personalization we were able to do, is is going to the benefit of that is going to be huge, and I think clients or schools, if they want that, I think like knowing that it is going to take we can't do this on our own. It is going to take that manpower and it's going to take your team committing, because the client we were working with, the fit the thing patented team, the Kaylor team, we were all in on this, and the client to their entire team, this was their priority. They were all in, they were engaged, and so I think that's the thing that I would take away is that if you want this, I think that impact of this is great, but if you want that, I think realizing first that you have to go in, all in on that, and you have to realize the manpower in the team that you need for this is really important on the front end now, kind of that cut, that commitment. I think you're right. That's great, Matt. How about you? You know, I struggle to find just one takeaway because there are there are so many. But I really think that the biggest thing for me as as a content writer is to always remember that the point of all of this is to is to meet your audience where they are, and all of this effort that we're that we're putting into automation you it's it's not. It's not to add, you know, unnecessary complexity to messaging. It's not to be fancy. It is to it is to meet prospective students, future students, where they are right now and where we are doing it with, with a tone and with content that is, we certainly hope, addressing the concerns that they have, answering the questions they have. We are, we are helpful in focus, we are essentially it's an extension of the admissions team were we are going out before them and we are providing that that counseling. It's sort of pre counseling, right, we're ushering them along and so automation says, Hey, we see you, we know where you're coming from. We're here to help. That's what it's all about. Great thanks, Matt Troy. How about you? You've kind of seen both sides of it. You and I have been on both sides of it. To tell me a little bit about what your takeaway would be. My biggest takeaway is your team has done a great job of letting the prospective students know that you matter and kind of what Matt just said, you meeting them where they are and you're also letting them know we're listening to you, because each time they saw a postcard, each time they went to a landing page, their name aim was either prepopulated or it was there right at the very beginning. Then when they would put an input in the next step or when we did the next outreach, we would tell them what they told us and that was very instrumental in helping our client established the foundation of that relationship. And then something else I want to make sure that we say is all during this calm flow we were we were also making sure that the prospective students understood the mission of the school, making sure there was a mission fit, and that was very important to our perspective. Client and I think you did an excellent job of getting to...

...know the prospective student but also letting them know about the school and making sure that they realized if they went to the school, there are certain beliefs, there's a certain culture there that we really hope they would be comfortable with. So that those are the takeaways that I wanted to make sure everyone understood about this campaign. That's great. I think that winds up our conversation. Bart I appreciate you bringing your team together. Do you have any last thoughts and anything that you can leave us with before we sign out? Yeah, the one last thought I would say, and this is something that Matt said earlier that I just wanted to kind of I wasn't sure if he was going to use it as his as his takeaway, but I'm going to kind of use it as kind of our punctuation at the end of the end of the podcast, is that we talk a lot about automation. We talk a lot about all kinds of things that are at the finger tips of marketers these days, whether it's social media, whether it's, you know, paper, Click, social match. There's all kinds of tools out there, but at the end of the day, we're trying to build relationships and and we want to maintain the illusion of that relationship. And I really love that analogy of the magician because I think that sometimes we tend to forget that. We that people understand automation. They understand what's going on. It's not a mystery. But everybody's willing, just like at a magic show, we're all willing to kind of participate in the illusion where to participate along the way, but it's it's that one mistake that if that, you know, if the if the rabbit jumps out of the hat too early or kind of scrolls across the stage, it runs the illusion. It ruins the experience in it and it changes the dynamic. And so I guess I would take away to that as you put together these programs, as you look at all these tools, recognize that they are tools and, like with most tools, there's some safety features and and I would just make sure that as as highered marketers start to get into these spaces of the automation, of the different tools, of the different ways of doing that, reach out and ask for help, you know, because I mean sometimes there are people who have experienced in that that have done it before. Don't hesitate to reach out at all. I'll make myself available just if you ever want to have a quick conversation, just to ask how did you do that? You know there's there's no strings attached. To be happy to share anything with you, and I know troy would feel the same way about that. So that's some things I would leave troy, but it's been a great conversation. I just want to thank my team for what they've what they've offered. I think you and your team as well. I would like to say that I often say that Bart and I interview people that we like, it admire in the highered marketing space, and that is so true with the people that I'm spending time with today. So thank you, Matt, Jenny and Jesse. The higher and market of podcast is sponsored by Kaylor solutions and education marketing and branding agency and by think patent did, a marketing, execution and printing company providing mailing services to hire ED institutions. On behalf of my cohost Bart Taylor and his team, I'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer to ensure that you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player, if you're listening with apple podcasts. We'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,.

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