The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode 60 · 6 months ago

Fluid Communications Build Better Relationships

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, international student applications have more than tripled, but the way to market to international students has significantly changed. 

In this episode, Christian DiGregorio, Director of International Recruitment at York College of Pennsylvania, speaks to the new ways to successfully connect with and build relationships with international students. 

We discuss:

  • Using messaging apps to connect with students
  • How to stand out and lead with your strengths
  • Adapting your language to build relationships  

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.  

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Higher Ed Marketer in your favorite podcast player.

The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities to engage interested students before they even apply. You were listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, don'tor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to this week's episode of the High Red Marketer podcast. My name is troy singer and I'm here with my cohost, Bart Taylor, and today we're speaking with Christian de Grigoryo. He is the director of international recruitment at Your College of Pennsylvania. I believe we discovered Christian because of a paper he wrote and the caught the interest of Bart and as we started communicating with him, it became very apparent that he is someone that could come on to the podcast and exude a lot of knowledge about his success in recruiting international students. Yeah, I really, really like Christian. I he's such a great episode that we're getting ready to talk about. But thing I really like about Christian as he kind of takes what's kind of a traditional way of doing recruiting but he adapts it for the audience that he's recruiting too. And even though he's talking a lot about international students and international recruiting, this is a great episode just to kind of think about how can I apply non traditional ways to more of my traditional recruiting aspects, and especially in marketing. So really take a take a listen to that. He is quite I really like how he articulate. He has he's quite articulate, as well as the fact that he does represent a smaller school, a small smaller Liberal Arts College, and I know a lot of the audience that listens to the hired marketer comes from those smaller institutions or from specific colleges and larger institutions, and so there's some really good information on this podcast. Here's our conversation with Christian. Please help me welcome Christian D Gregory O, Director of international recruitment at Your College of Pennsylvania, to the Higher Ed Marketer podcast and Christian, we appreciate you coming on and sharing your expertise around the recruitment of international students. But before we get into the conversation, if you would let our listeners know a little bit about your college and your role at York. Sure, it's a pleasure of being here. Thank you for having me. But an enrollment management for about twenty two years. Eighteen years was at a small university in northeastern Pennsylvania and that's where I kind of really fell in love with international admissions. I was senior director of admissions at the time and I'm you know at that point and I'm doing budgeting and enrollment planning and communicating with trustees administration and I had started the international recruitment strategic programs there of how to do recruit then and...

...at that point we were really focused on government scholarship students, Saudi Arabian students, but I also had a large contingent of students from northern Iraq, that Kurdish region. We have about twenty year thirty students there. After those programs decreased, we decide to kind of switch gears and we're going to focus on educational agents, or consultant to some people call them. Did that for a while, rebounded nicely, but I always kind of had this pole of international admission. They that's where I wanted to spend most of my time and after a brief stint at another university you work was looking for someone to kind of broaden their international student population institute some new initiatives, and that's kind of what I'm doing now, you know, getting that applicant funnel and kind of maneuvering some things at the top of that funnel, putting in some new application procedures and policies, hiring educational consultants, doing, you know, conferencing, representing You York at different high schools and so forth, and just really increasing the population exploring Marcus that they've not explored before. Thank you and would like to jump into the conversation around the current state and if there is a difference or an increase, as we talked about marketing to international students post pandemic. Yeah, yeah, so we have seen an increase. I've been reading a lot of articles where people have seen the increases around the United States and in other parts of the world. I think now, with covid starting to subside, we hope it permanently does, that we've seen increases so I started it. You work. It was in March two thousand and twenty, at the beginning of the pandemic. Our application since then have more than tripled, as well as the admitted students. That's great. And tell me a little bit about how you're going about that recruiting. I mean certainly you're not traveling during pandemic, and so that didn't happen. They're not traveling to Pennsylvania during the pandemic. So what type of tools are you using for your international recruitment? Well, we're doing a lot of different things, but what have you've seen a lot of success on is messaging APPs. Things like what'Sapp and and telegram and Zolo and some of the other ones we chat have all been extremely helpful to getting those students and leveraging our strengths. That's great and help our audience understand that, because I think a lot of our audience probably understand social media APPS. So we might be familiar with, you know, facebook messenger, or might be familiar with snap or things like that. But some of what you're talking about I think a lot more prevalent in in the international scene. I've heard a lot more mentions of telegram lace lately with the Russian Russian invasion of Ukraine, and so just tell us tell the audience a little bit about what these APPs are and how they work. So messaging APPS are a way for students can to communicate to each other. So I and actually I have a great story about telegram. The last trip that I had done was in Uzbekistand...

...was in Central Asia and I'm doing a college fair through education USA, and if you're not familiar with Education USA, they work predominantly with helping students get to the United States and study. So we're doing a fair with that and I'm in the capital of Tash Kent and my table was a little slow at that point and there's some students over in the corner and they're all standing together but their heads are down looking at their phones and her thumbs are just going wildly and after a few miss they then approached my table. They're still looking at their phones, but they're also talking with me and I start hearing the word telegram. After they left, I grabbed the fair organizers and they said, you know what's telegram? Tell me a little bit more about that, and they said, well, telegram is a messaging GAPP and everybody uses it here, and the light bulb went off in my hands. Okay, I went back up to my hotel room after the event and I'm downloading, you know, telegram, making a profile, uploading my profile picture, and then the next day, new city for location of the fair, and the students are coming to me and I'm saying, you know, and if you have any other questions later, I'd be happy to talk to you. Just send me a message on telegrams you want telegram, like I'm just the savvy international recruiter. You know, nothing could be further from the truth. But it was amazing how many message that I got that day and then once I got back to campus, just from that and then I started to have the students teach me different features about the APPS. So this is a way for students to really get in touch with you a little more formal. They can digest information at their own pace and your own pace. There's desktop versions, so you can send links, you can do all different thing you could send documents, do all different kinds of things. So it's better than it's a little more fluid than email and replicates a conversation a little bit better than me and I guess it's a little bit more of a international standard than texting. I mean, texting gets really kind of crazy with fees and things like that, and I'm sure that international students won't even, you know, answer a text or won't even give you their phone number. So you could text when we get a an application, of course the options there. It's intended for domestic students, Bill say, you know, you can send all being texted and most of the time being national students, a clean do not make sense. Very good. That's that's a fascinating way to kind of keep that keep that going, and I really like I really like how that works out so perfect. In my correspondence with you, going back and forth, I've seen not only do you have telegraph as a button that they can utilize in your signature, but there are a couple of other messaging APPs and I understand depending on the region or the country that you're communicating with, will determine which APP is best to use. Can you elaborate? Right, so most of my students...

...will communicate with me through WHATSAPP. That one is is the catchall. That one's you know, anybody can use that one, but there's some that are more regional. So telegram is most popular in Central Asia and some areas in the Pacific. Pacific Asia line would be most popular in places like Japan, Taiwan and Thailand. Then there's country specific ones. So if it's Vietnam, you would be using Zali's. China it's we chat. Everybody you know knows we chat. That tends to be the more popular one. And then if, maybe, if you're doing some work in South Korea, you're using KK talk, and there's more more messaging APPs that go out there. So what you want to do is you want to match your target with the APP that you're going to be using, knowing that some of these APPs are a little fluid. So I've gotten messages online where the student was from Hondura's you know, it happens. So things are there's no boarders, things are things are a little bit more fluid. And it's not just the students that I'll be communicating with. I've communicated with parents, I communicate with guidance officers through this, through these messaging APPS, and again you're doing a bulk of your communication through these APPs versus email or text. Correct email will still always be there, but for those really indepth conversations or even some of the short ones, like hey, I still need you are a letter of recommendation or I need your English proficiency exam, don't respond, and sometimes they'll even send a document to us through the APP. That's fascinating. That's great. Christian, if you would outside of the APPS. What are some of the other ways that you execute market entry or maybe some things that we traditionally would think online? How are you doing that? So we're doing a lot with virtual visits. That could be set up on your own. I've done that where I'm reaching out to guidance counselors. Sometimes it's through third party. Sometimes third parties will offer you a package to reach out to schools. You know it. It's that does come come with a cost. I tend to do which directly reaching out. I've partner with Education USA and I will do do different presentations them. Presentations tend to be more neutral topic, so they're not Pro York, but there are more a little bit about you know, what's it like to study in the United States? What's classroom culture like? How do you search for schools? You tell us about the ranking system and how it works. Even run college essay workshops virtually so that's going very well. The US Department of Commerce or International Trade Commission has helped out with that. There's been certain fairs that we've done. There is typical. You know, email you can do. There's third party lead generators and third party lead generators ten help out...

...a lot with these messaging APPs when you're reaching out the students, because you can get their their phone number, as opposed to buying names. You know, when you when you buy names, think about it. You know, think of all the schools who are buying names. And then what happens? We get them, we dump them into our crm and then the email on slop gets. And how do you stand out? And that that's really hard and you do really need to kind of lead with your strengths. When we're here at York, kind of took inventory of what our strengths are going to be. Looking around. academically, we have a broad variety of academic programs that we offer. What makes us a little more unique, and I think you talked about this in your last podcast, where you leading with your strengths. We have a fantastic engineering program that's a bad accredited along with computer science. But our engineering programs have paid coops. So they get three paid co OPS and we're finally, most of our students about half the time they get hired from wherever they're doing a collop and they get reduced tuition during their engineering coops. So their tuition for the semester is about two tho three hundred dollars and they're getting paid. So so they're coming back to us. When you're leading with a strength like that, they're going, okay, well, that's really cool. What else do you have to tell me about? And then that opens up the doors for other academic programs. So actually you would think that most of our applicants are engineering. No, they're mostly biology and business and some other smaller areas. But that door opens up. The other thing that leads to is, you know, one of our strengths is, yes, we're a small private liberal arts institution, but we don't have the sticker tag that other schools who are in our position, our classification, would have. Tuition is just over here, over twenty three Tho, and their scholarships available. So when you go in with your strengths and you're going into a market like that and you're leading with this. This really opens up the door and peaks up some curiosity. People will tend to stick around a little bit. That's great. I really like some of that because I's a couple things you said in there. I mean, leading with your strengths obviously is so important and, as you said, we've talked about that many times on other episodes, but even just I liked what you talked about just a couple minutes ago about a lot of the students start asking questions whether their webinars or other things were what's it like to, you know, study in the United States? What's the what are the rankings all about those? Those are couple things you mentioned and one of my big beliefs is that the more that we can provide content that has to do with answering the question students have, more likely we're going to show up in the search results that they're searching for, because, I mean, they're using Google as much as they're using, you know, whatsapp another other messaging APPs, and so being able to stand apart, I think, are some of those things. Are you finding some of that true, that you you're creating those relationships, the more that you are focusing...

...on the student as the hero as opposed to your college as the hero. Sometimes we do get a good response. And to your point about that, you know searching through Google. I'm a big user of Google analytics. Before someone applies, they're going to visit your website, they're going to check out your academic programs, they're going to look at your tuition and your scholarships. So when you're doing market entry, I'm really looking at which countries are moving into that that top ten in terms of hits or in terms of other metrics, and what pages are they going to you know, if you're finding that people are going to the hours of operation for your library and or there, for one second, it's probably a boud or, it's not a legitimate hit. But when they're looking for your academic programs and so forth, okay, now we've got something. Now we can get the ball rolling a little bit. I think when you're presenting on these topics that are a little more neutral and you do get an opportunity to talk about York a little bit, you find that people are looking at you as the authority in that subject manager. They're more apt to ask you questions. They see the faith, they hear you talk, they look at the content they say, okay, you know, I'm going to maybe give this person a chance or give the school chance and they wind up telling friends and a lot of these presentations are then can be streamed online. So I've done a lot on facebook live where people can view it later on and then and then connect with me later. That's great. Now, I know in our pre interview we talked a little bit about some different stories and I think that you had a student who was in Vietnam. Tell us a little bit about that and how that played out. Yeah, I had a great student that we have been talking through email for a while and we started chatting through Zalo, which was, you know, predominantly popular in Vietnam, specific to her. And what was different was, you know, first she was very apprehensive. So when you're going in using these messaging APPS, you want to identify yourself, who you are and why are contacting them. That that's something you definitely want to do. But she knew York and she knew my name from previous emails and she so she first asked a question. Is this the Real York? I said, I said yes, it's me, it's Christian, she goes Oh, okay, but she had talked about she had previously attended school at high school in we was in Ohio, she had done her her year ten there and now she was back in Vietnam for year eleven and we'll be there for you twelve. And I kind of slowed her down a little bit and I said what's you'll tell me about what that experience was like and what are the differences between going to school in Vietnam as opposed to the United States? It was very interesting and she talked about how the differences in curriculum, how much pressure there was in in...

Vietnam compared to the United States for students to perform well academically, and that kind of really stuck out to me and we had a probably talked for about thirty or forty minutes. You know, if that's an email, conversation doesn't take place. And a lot of times we get really wrapped up in saying how great we are and and we all have those strings. We want to lead with that and we often forget to ask, you know, how are you tell me more kids have been through a lot these past couple of years. I mean even domestically. You have kids who are, you know, those class trips are gone, PROMS gone, all these different opportunities are gone, sports canceled, gone. Those students are going through the same thing and they're trying to make a decision on higher education. This is really new for them. This is a completely different culture, different education system, and they're trying to adjust and the messaging APPS and the conversations I've had through the messaging APPs has allowed me to kind of a little build a better relationship with the students and be able to share more information and get more information from them. That's great and I know that. Earlier in the conversation we were talking a little bit about the idea that, you know, buying names. You know, that's that's a kind of a popular way for traditional Undergrad as you know, hey, let's buy names from all the test test groups, you know, Sata, set those types of things, and then kind of put it in, set it and forget it. I think that's you know, all right, that's a and it's hard to stand apart and a lot of times I think that that then kind of leads into the comm flow, the admissions com flow. That okay, we've got an application. Now we need to do some comm flow to kind of get them to the next phase of the funnel and the whole thing. How is it different with international students in what some people might recognize as traditional Undergrad because, I mean, some schools are recognizing that to grow they need to start looking more internationally, they need to start looking a little bit more creatively in growing in round. And tell us a little bit about how com flow specifically is different. So the COMPLO is going to be different? Well, first this is going to work best within bound leads. So if you're purchasing a name, the phone number most likely is not going to calm down. This is best for people who are going to going to raise their hands and say yes, yes, I'm interested right. One of the things that we need to keep in mind with international enrollment is we're used to a certain academic calendar. Nor, you know, August and September to usually May. Orage. Different curriculums and different parts of the world are going to go on completely different calendars. So if you're in South America, let's say Paraguay, your academic count is going to run from February or March to or we would call thanksgiving. That November December. So you're a com flow is now very, very different. So if now, if you start, you know, trying to nurture leads in October or September, you're late for that group. They're getting ready to graduate. You now have ready to go on summer break because, yeah, is in the Southern Hemisphere,...

...exactly, exactly. So that's that's very, very, very different. There's other things you have to think about in terms of vocabulary. Although we may be speaking the same language, there's things that are a little bit different. So Southeast Asia, for example, they'll use the term course. Please tell me about your computer science course, and you're on the other side thinking why is this person asking me about specific class? We have lots of computer science courses. What they really mean is major and when you're talking with a student, they might be saying, you know, I understand what you're saying. I have a doubt you think I some you your initial reactions to take that personally, I have a doubt. What they mean is I have a question. So you have these different vocabularies that are interchangeable and you're trying to kind of nail this down. So so that's different. So those are some of the ways where it's a little bit different. You know, I would also say that students, they do want to hear about alumni and recent alumni. They want to hear about tuition and scholarships. All students want to do that, but not all scholarships are available to international students. So they want to hear a little bit more about the scholarship opportunities for them and they do want to hear about correct them. When I'm talking with students, you're going to be taking these classes or these, you know subjects, you're from southeast Aja, we term subjects. Will be doing that and they want to hear from other students on campus, current students, so I'll be doing I'll be doing that as well. That's great. I really appreciate just understanding those, those subtleties, because I think that, like you said earlier, I think the APPS start to build trust and the relationship right and I think that once you start to adapt your language to their language, just like you adapt your preference of your APP to their preference, I think that's just human nature that we're going to build trust and we're going to build relationships that way. That's great. We talk a lot about it on this show. Schools are really struggling today to make the same apps been work. CPMS are up eighty nine percent you over year. On facebook and Instagram, our college clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zeemi has become so crucial for our clients. With over one million students, close to tenzero five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social laps and recently one of apples hot APPs of the week, there is simply isn't anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zeemi not only provides the best space for student engagement, but the most unique in action will data for their one hundred and sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Zeemi is a must have strategy for Gen Z. check them out now. At college is Dot Zee mecom. That's colleges dot Zee m eecom.

And yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you Christian. As a smaller Liberal Arts College, how do you compete with some of the larger schools that have the presence, that have the budget when you are marketing to international students. So we understand and we understand where we are in the market place. We know our position. We are not in Ivy League school, we are not what many people call a a tier one institution and we're not trying to compete with with the ives and so forth. Knowing your position and who you are is very important. So I have students now where they have really, you know, consciously reached out to schools with our profile. You know they're going to get lost at a larger school they don't feel feel comfortable. And I have a student now that was admitted and then met with their parents over zoom and it was clear from those communications, in the communication with the guidance counselor in the student that they were looking for a small institution, when someone who's they were going to be able to look after them and nurture them a little bit, where they're going to get lost. I have other students say, you know, I've never studied at a large school. I prefer a smaller school in a smaller city, or I have different health issues. It's very important that I you're very flexible with me and when we can do that and we could be very flexible so we're not always competing with the same student, but we kind of know our place and the guidance staff and the students tend to know our place as well how we can assist them with our higher education needs. I think that's great and I think it kind of goes into the whole idea of ultimately customer service. I mean you just talked about how all that kind of flows in and being a smaller school you I often tell a lot of my clients, you know, they sometimes bemoan about well, we're so small, but you can do things so differently. You can. You can really do the personal touch that you know a large, a large tier one or an, I view Ivy League cannot do because just as the sheer volume. So tell us a little bit about the philosophy that Yourk has with kind of that customer service approach. Right. So, now that we've leverished our strengths, we feel we're at a good price point when you're going into a new market. We kind of had this discussion and I kind of wanted to push you know, who are we going to be? What will be our our personality? Source and one of those was customer service, who want to provide accessibility to information and accessibility to me. I've had students reach out to me through through what's happen? One question I have want to particular student in mind who just flat out said to me you have no idea how difficult it is to get in touch with someone and the missions office and then you know, there I am. And then when you're doing this, it's you're...

...not on all the time. What's APP does provide an out of office? I am present from this time to this time and I'm not available. You know. Please you can convert your time zone here. It's the quick little statement to do that. But to be able to say hey, I need that, that English proficiency exam or the need that transcript, they can send it through the messaging apps and then I can verify that. Know if it's an English proficiency exam and says such as an eye ELTs, I can verify that online. Some transcripts now there's a Qr Code. I can get my code, I can I can get my phone, I can scan that with my camera and then I can go on the Ministry of Educations website and I guess it. Okay, check the box. I know having transcript. That's amazing and that's all I needed to complete it. So so those types of things go a long way. They see the speed at which the application can be processed and that you can leverage. Yeah, that sounds like an eye and I'm guessing that not only does that work through the application process, but even through retention and on campus. I'm sure that those relationships continue. I mean, obviously you've built a relationship with them. You know, some schools it's kind of like the counselor does it? You know, does a handoff to the to the student life, and then, you know, no more do they get content connected. But it sounds like York might have have a different philosophy on that as well. Right, so the conversation still continue. What you do need to do is, is the phone numbers going to be changed? Most likely the students going to get a new stem card. There you get a new WHATSAPP account or whatever account it is. They're going to do that. Well, once you match up with them again, you can have conversations and I'll reach out. Hey you, neatl. How's that class going? How's your semester going? Did you get that, you know, that dining planet you wanted, or do you get that room that you wanted? Or you still looking for a job? I need somebody to help out because I'll use current students to then reach out at that great students. That's great and they can talk about the experience they had during the application process and then saying you're going to get taken care of here, you know you're going to be okay, someone's going to look after you. Would aside from the other things that we do, the kind of help with with retention, but that's certainly helpful student coming in knowing that they've been taken care of and that continues to happen once they're here at York, especially in a place where they're we all can relate to being kind of the odd person out in the sense and I can only imagine, and you know, traveling halfway around the world, you know, coming into a small Pennsylvania town and you know setting setting down and creating a new life that there's there's a lot of a lot of stress and a lot of fear with that, even even for the most savage students Christian. We like to end our episodes by asking our guests if there is a thought or a tip that they could share that would be impactful to our listeners soon they're after so do you have any thoughts you can share before we wind up our episode? Sure you know, messaging APPs are completely free.

It's no cost. Many institutions will give their emission reps a cell phone and a cell plan. If you can't do that now you know get can you get that and requested in your budgets almost budget time, July first coming around. But this is a really low cost initiative that can that can pay off and the other argument that I get back is I don't have the time to do that. See if you can mobilize your current students. I have that happening right now. I have my current students reaching out to recently admitted students who are going to be making their final decisions soon. They can give a perspective that I can. They're the ones taking the classes, they're the ones eating at the dining halls, living, living in the residence halls, participating in the clubs and organizations, doing all these different things, playing sports. They can speak to that much better than than I can. So to have those conversations happen if you don't have the time, are very valuable as well. Thank you very much, Christian, and I will say through our conversations we've had with you, we can see the big improvement from when you didn't know what telegram was, and so, being the resource that you are now and being that knowledgeable resource, what would be the best way for someone contact you if they would like to do so? You can do it through email and my name is a little long, so I'll go through and spell it's the letter c dig our EG Oh are ioh at y CP DOT Edu. The domain is a lot easier than than the first part and if you want to get in touch with me, I will give my what's at at plus one seven, one seven, three zero nine, one zero eight. Thank you, Christian. You've shared a lot and would like to know if there's any upcoming events that you have that you would like to share. You know we do have some virtual open houses that will happen in the fall. One of the Nice big things that we got through market entry is I'll be giving a plenary session at a country's Guidance Counseling Association Annual Conference. So having that as part of your market entry. I think that's a that's a pretty good successful I'm very excited about that. That will occur in mid May. Thank you very much for being a guest and we wish you the best of luck, Christian. Thank you so much, Bart. Do you have any final thoughts or words you would like to share? Yeah, I just want to point out a few things that I kind of been taking away from this conversation. That I that I think applies to just about everyone. I know some people might be listening and saying, well, we don't do a lot of international admissions and so not sure how much applies, but couple things I want you to take away from this. Is One Christian is one that I think has been very open and willing to try new things. I know that right now a lot of enrollment leaders listen to this podcast. A lot of marketers listen to this podcast. Asked and you work with a lot of a...

...lot of people who might not want to change the way things have been done and even the way things were done four years ago, two years ago. Things continue to evolve and I really like the fact that Christian leaned into and ask what is telegram and leaned into that and has really kind of created a whole new way of recruiting through these messaging APPs, and so I would encourage you as marketers, as in leaders, to really kind of look at water ways that we can lean into a new technology, new methods or means of doing things. I've been working with a school lately of really encouraging video emails. You know, as Christian state and you know, standing out from the crowd, what a better way than to send a personalized video in an email or a text? And I'm thinking more stateside for, you know, some of the traditional Undergrad is that, you know, have a lot of schools complained that, Hey, students aren't picking up their phone, they're not answering our calls, they're not, you know, responding to our you know, there's no voice mail, that the voice mailbox is full. What do we do? Well, I think that we've got to start looking at these other other ways, and texting is kind of the state side equivalent of these messaging apps and I think that I think utilizing that technology, utilizing video emails, so important and I think also one thing that you might have heard from Christian is that he is building relationships. And so if you're relying on this automated platform of even automated emails or automated texting. You've got to change that up and you've got to really start looking at it as a relationship build and how can you get personal and how can you grow that? So again, Christian, thanks so much for taking time today and really appreciate your time on the on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. The hired marketer podcast is sponsored by Taylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing, execution, printing and mailing provider of Higher Ed Solutions. On behalf of my cohost Bart Taylor, I'm troy singer. Thanks again for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,.

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