The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode · 3 months ago

Breathing Life into Higher Education w/ Experiential Storytelling

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

With the shift to online schooling and a decrease in enthusiasm for liberal arts, it’s more important than ever to emphasize how the story told by in-person higher ed impacts a student’s life more than any other learning experience: critical thinking skills that can be used in any profession; a community of students eager to help each other; and a call to storytelling—creating leaders that others can see themselves in.

Phil Cook, VP for Enrollment at Lee University, joins the show to discuss the importance of higher education and its impact for the future of the world.

What we talked about:

- Higher Ed's Benefits & the Debate of Online Schooling

- The Loyalty to a Student’s Alma Mater

- Investing in Critical Thinkers Over Higher Pay

- Helping Students See Themselves in Higher Ed Through Storytelling

- Bringing Energy & Enthusiasm to Campuses

- Advice for Listeners

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- NACCAP

- Phil’s Email

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Higher Ed Marketer on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.
 

You were listening to the higher edmarketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in highereducation. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to studentrecruitment, donut relations, marketing, trans new technologies and so much more.If you are looking for conversation centered around where the industry isgoing, this podcast is for you, let's get into the show, welcome to the high red marketerpodcast. My name is troy singer and i'm here with my co host bart kaylor, andtoday we get to interview a wonderful prismatic and energetic marketer. Hisname is phil cook and i think bart you're, familiar with phil in thecircles that you run within yeah, that's true, phil was introduced to methrough a common friend. Phil is actually going to be taking over as theexecutive director of nat cap, which is the north american coalition ofchristian college professionals and the job he thanks his, but people who are familiar with natcap, just calling maccab and- and so it's he's very passionate about hisrole for the past thirty years at lee university in tennessee, but now he'llbe making the journey northward here to indiana to take the helmet a nat cap,and i think he has a lot of really good things to say that, regardless of yourtype of school, he references a lot of faith based schools, but don't don'ttune him out too quickly, because i think you want to make sure that he hasa lot to talk about with emotion and passion and how to articulate thebenefit of higher education regardless of the school type and how importantthat is through storytelling and through other. That means so reallylooking forward to the conversation so true bart. So everyone here is ourinterview of fil cook. It is my pleasure to introduce toeveryone till cook the executive director of the north amerian concoit,on for christian emissions, for...

...professionals to the podcast welcomephil. Thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be with you both and i'mexcited for the conversation looking forward to him, as are we and if you could telleveryone a little bit about yourself, your background and your role at nacka.Well, i'm the new guy, i'm brand new troy, so i'm gonna be just be startedwhen this is when this is launched and when everyone gets to listen to it. Soi'm new to the executive director role, but i'm not new to nat cap as i've beena part of the membership and the organization for many years, due to mywork, in particular, in recruitment and in admissions and enrollment work at amember institution of nat cap for many years, so i've been a part of leeuniversity in tennessee for twenty eight years and i've been doingadmissions and profession an enrollment work rather for twenty five years. Soi've been around the word for a long time been around that cap a long time,but man am, i excited to be a part of the the larger conversation as we helpadmissions professionals from around the country in north america, do theirwork better and help serve our students and families as well. That's great well,thanks for, i think, i think, for a lot of people who might be listening to theto the podcast. They might not be familiar with nat cap and you just kindof gave a little bit of a thumb. Maile of it. You know supporting a lot ofother organizations. I mean it is the north american coalition for christianemission professionals and so so really kind of focused in on christian schools,and i guess before we get into kind of the first topic, because i think thatyou know the first question that i want to talk about is just just this idea ofhow much higher ed can have an impact on individual lives, and i think thatone of the things i've always really respected about nat, cap and and otherorganizations like it. I think nat cap has a unique angle because of the faithaspect of it, but there are other organizations that are supportingeducation because of the students...

...success and, ultimately, i think,because of the way higher impact ultimately impacts our society. Maybeyou can tell us a little bit about that and how that relates to the new roleand that cup yeah. Of course, neck has seen around for fifty years and for thefor the past twenty five years. Many of our listeners will recognize the namechant thompson. Chanson chant is a legend in the industry. After a longterm tenure at at hunnington university in indiana, he stepped in the rolls,the first and only full time director and for twenty five years. He hasserved with distinction and built the the foundation upon which all of usstand and work today, but they are we're working to have admissionsprofessionals and specifically face base schools for organization to helpchange students lives and to transform their lives so higher education. Doesthat education does that? So how can i have a better life? Will education cando that? How can i be a better member of society? How can i get it ahead andadvance in my career saw an article. I think it was the chronicle hired thisweek, that was profiling, earning potential an income. Those data arestill out there that show students who get a four year degree will make moremoney to the course of their careers in lifetime. So nat, captain schools likeus, want to help students find the right fit school, where they can getthe education with excellence to prepare them for their career, but alsofind the right sent where there a holistic development is fully in play.So that means emotionally. That means in a place of a nacca. That meansspiritually because we are face based institution. So that's the larger taskbefore us as we work to help christian education around north america and inparticular, as you make the question bart a specifically at higher edinstitutions. That's what we seek to do and will continue to do as we getstarting cranked up in my role. There that's great- and i think that one ofthe one of the things that i i anticipate is going to happen over thenext several years, but i think it's going to accelerate because of thepandemic. Is this idea that i think a...

...lot of families are starting to look athigher at especially with with the way that costs have kind of increased overthe past several years? You know it's, it costs more for a higher degree thani did in other areas of our society, but i guess i guess i'm thinking thatas higher an marketers we're going to need to start articulating these extrabenefits that hire ed brings to someone's life, because i think thatright now i mean there's a lot of families that are looking at it andsaying: okay, you know what my son or daughter did online for their junioryear of high school. Do i really need to invest in a traditional four year?Degree. Can i just rack it up with you know: ap credits and- and can i justyou know, do a gap yer to get them a little bit of experience out in theworld and then just do online classes or or whatever to just kind of you know,wrap it up. Tell me how how you see marketers really trying to help help usarticulate that benefit, because i think it is a critical benefit thathonestly, i don't want to see us lose. I agree with you that the challenge hasbeen great in my role in my work at one institution for many years, we've hadto make the argument every day, one on one macro. Of course we have to do thatand get the messaging out, but the critical piece from my perspectivebecomes. There is a people to people, business, people, select, institutions or people. Donorsmight give money because of the persons and the people with whom they'reinteracting. So the challenge is even greater now, as you said, because ofthe pandemic, our challenge is the business model can't be sustained. Ifwe just look at it through an online or zoom delivery, we can't compete withthe publics. We can't compete with the two years and we can't compete with iton price alone. So what we have to do is make the argument that this is morethan a commodity. We're not just buying a can of beans were not just buyingwe're, not buying a car, we're not buying a cell phone with it that whatthis is about. There's so much more to this experience, because when youchoose a college university, you are...

...literally choosing a universe thatyou're going to insert yourself and immerse yourself. So what kind ofperson do you want to be whenever you come out of that school four yearslater, so it matters the kind of faculty that stand in front of you oreven may zoom in front and zoom with you? What kind of person? What kind ofvalues does that person have do they align with the values that we have as afamily and, in our case with nat cap as families of faith? So what is thatworse? Is it worth a sacrifice? We think it is. Is it worth a little bitof student loan and deadness? We think it is, and is it worse extra curricularprograms or classes that make the difference to behave. Someone become abetter person, so you know i'm excited about the challenge. It's a biggerchallenge, in my opinion than it's been since i've been in this industry. Wehave to make the argument intelligently cogently and impassioned that choosinga four year school and a face based institution is the right choice for afamily. That's great! I agree with you. I think that that those years offormative years between eighteen and twenty two, i think that all of us whohave experienced that traditional higher end experience know howformative that is how how that universe has shaped us in different ways, and ithink that sometimes, that also kind of sets us on a course and again. This isanother reason why i think it's so important for hirin marketers tounderstand the ability to articulate the benefit of that universe. If youwill, because ultimately, ten fifteen twenty years down the road, thosealumni are going to turn around and give back to the university and helpother students kind of have that experience help. Other students helpshape them, and i guess that's, maybe one of the reasons why there's so muchloyalty, maybe attunement to alma maters and t talk a little bit aboutthat, because i know t our pre interview. You had some interestingthings to say about that. Well, i mean literally the from fromwhat i know: amamare means mother. So what more affinity? What more emotionis there and in the right, traditional family setting, i uderstand, sometimeswith parents kind of up bring and...

...rearing their trauma with a, but in thetraditional setting. What more affinity is there for your mother, the one whocares to the one who nurtures you, the one who gets you along and set you upfor life, so in that eighteen to twenty two year old time frame, it is criticalfor us to make those connections intellectually cognitively, but alsoemotionally that this is something that a place that cares about me and then iin tern, when i graduate i care about it as well. I spent one year one yearas a minister of youth before i came to that on a modern go to work. Well, mytake on that was as twelve thirteen sixteen seventy eight year olds, you'rejust trying to survive right, get them to get through the day, and hopefullythey listen to you, but it's the eighteen and nineteen, and that andtwenty one is when you see that progress happening. When you see thatmaturity right before your eyes, that's the payoff. That's the magic of thecollege experience never again. In my life at least, i don't know about youguys, but did i have the freedom to make the decisions that i wanted tomake the mistakes and learn from those in the way that i did, but also to havesuccess, to build confidence and set me up for success in life so that eighteen,two to twenty two year old time frame? It's critical from my perspective,because we want our students, not cap schools, all of our schools to have anaffinity for their mamate that will never go away because of the wonderfullife changing transformational experience they had when they were astudent yeah. That's that's really good, and i know that i know that lifechanging experience as they've had a students- and i see this especially infaith based i'm a product of faith based. So i understand that a littlebit more, but i think that, like you were going back to the very beginning,i think the impact that higher head really it gives because of thatconfidence. It's built because of those being able to have the freedom to learnfrom your mistakes. Those different things of kind of moulding you into theperson that you are it kind of impacts our society in theway that we are creating better people, and i know that there's been some. Youknow different folks. That kind of a e...

...have made some comments about that thatyou have mentioned earlier. Maybe we can kind of unpack that a little bityeah and and it's a real challenge now, because many of our schools in facebase institution i'll talk about the one, my ma mad, an where i've workedfor so many years we decide we describe ourselves as a christ. Centered liberalart institution with the liberal art has been a struggle. The liber artsthat tamim larot is fading in a lot of places, because families rightfully sowant to see a return on the event investment. What kind of job am i goingto get from this feel? If i choose to come to your school? What will it costme to go there and what will i be able to make when i get out of here, and iget all of that, because the growth in many department programs is in theprofessional areas, business, communication, education, nursing,medical, all those are where the money is. However, i also believe thatthere's a the commitment to being a better critical thinker, the commitmentto being a better person that, when i'm in those jobs, i'm making money, wewant people to be leaders who have integrity and have values thattranscend what's out there in the world. So the fact is that we need that weneed to he in his time of our lives. Our society needs it. Our government inour country needs it right, so yeah, the better person, the critical thinker,that's going to be- that has a moral base that solid and again for us. Itflows from our faith. So, yes, we think we can prepare you for a career whereyou can make some money. But yes, we also think we can help you to be a morewell rounded person, a critical thinker. Then, when you're with your employer,they think highly of you when you're with your family or your civic dutiesor your or your faith, face institutions that you're going tothrive as well. That's the challenge for us- and i don't know if you cantell, but i'm excited about the challenge that we have in ourinstitutions to be able to bring that to be bring at the past right now. Yeah.I can tell that's great- and i do love your passion about this and troy thatmaybe that kind of leads us into the next question about how do we? How dowe get more into it into passion and emotion? It most certainly does and ourprevious conversation with phil. He...

...told us that, because of his successthat he's seen in this career and at league university, one of those thingsis bringing passion and bringing emotion and selling that as a part of how you market the university, and socould you. Let us know how you feel others could do that as well. Yeah, thethere's, no doubt that, especially in universities, we are part of theacademy. We are to be thinkers. We are to prepare students to think andcritically reflect and to be more intelligent in that regard to moreintellectual. On the other hand, i think the people with whom i've worked,that i've really found success is yeah. I remember what they said and iremember what they taught me men. I remember how they made me feel when i'maround them. Do i leave this person's presence feeling more encouraged. Do ifeel better about myself? So, from my perspective, it's the it's. The i heardsomebody describe at one time as you've got the steak and you've got the sizzleof the stake right so that s six, the sake got to be good. It's going totaste good, the man that sizzled at that beginning of it that's the theintensity and the passion of it that we've got to bring and students genz,i'm not even sure utan. I should know this what the next generation is goingto be. I say alpha. That's right. You told me that last time, bor alsa ze up,but i tell you what, as a geno myself real recognizes real. So i don't wantemotion just for emotion's sake, it's got to be la from a place ofauthenticity and it's got to be a place that speaks truth when you do that, andyou have the intellectual commitment to train people the right way and youbring with it an energy my opinion, it's a recipe for success that willimpact our students to have better lives and to be more successful. That'swhat we want to bring to all of schools and i think all hired can do it. Publicschools can do it. I'm finishing my phd at university of tennessee at knoxville.There is an emotional connection i have at this research, one university,that's huge, but in my program with my...

...lohot, their emotional connections tothe professors and the others in the program that mirrors this, so i thinkit could be done at all levels. But of course i think it can be done at face.Bace institutions quite well yeah, and i think that's really important thatyou kind of mentioned that, and we actually did a blog post this past weekor two about storytelling, and i think that too many times i think sometimesas marketers and as you i think, we're guilty as higher and institutions werequick to kind of roll out the the outcomes roll out. The numbers roll outthe cost for credit hour, and we lose the opportunity to really tell storieswhere i think that's where the gold mine of emotion lies is within stories.I mean and we've got a guest coming up in a couple weeks: who's the chiefstory, teller at university, noter dame and he and i were talking on the on thepre podcast other. They just kind of give a little bit of a teaser for thefor that podcast. But maybe you can kind of respond. A little bit to fillis the idea that storytelling it's been used for eons. If you want to look at,you know the way thinkers throughout time. Jesus hugs storytelling itthrough his parables storytelling is a very powerful way for people to notonly intake content but to intake it not only the content, as well as theemotion that then steers it into their memory, and i think that's what youkind of alluded to while ago is when people are leaving something they'regoing to know how they felt about something more than necessarily beingable to recite the facts of that. So tell us a little bit about that and howyou've eunice that and how you encourage others. So i'm walking acrosscampus to find a place to do this podcast and make it hopefully perfect,for you guys and for our listeners and on the way of the door. Our admissionsteam saw me packing my office and i stopped and took about. It ended upbeing almost thirty minutes, so i didn't want to boss my my president toknow, but i told some stories i thought some stories about my experience. Atone point. In residential life, i cut my teeth in hirat in red life, which mygod, there tons of stories there. If the walls could talk and read this allaround the country right right and even...

...on our campus, but i taught a powerfulstory that was the most single most galvanizing professional net in my lifewas a fire in a man's residence hall twenty five years ago, when i s twentyeight years ago- and i started working here that story as i'm telling it ofthe twelve admissions young profession in the room. They were to use an overto use an overused phrase. They were leaning in and listening to every wordthey weren't born, but they knew there's something powerful about thatstory. The challenges in it and the successes and everybody in my opinion,once to someone to hear their story. So when i get to tell my story one, i hopethat you'll take it and be and be gracious with it right and and affirmme in the story, but listen to it. And then, when you tell your story,professor or administrator, can i see myself in you and what you've done? Soi think on our campus and hopefully what i continue to do is: whenprospective students go to visit a school, can they see themselves therebased on the story, that's being told in a macro marketing way or in a one onone way, so a tour guide pictures on a website, a phone called text messages.Does this student represent me and as my story similar to hers, i think i cansee myself there. Yes, so the power of story, in my opinion, is not the wholeball game, but man you can make a case that it's the most important thing yeah.I love that film. I love the fact that you pointed out. You know the differentways that you can get that, because i do think that everybody everyperspective student wants to be able to experience and see themselves in in the place with the gong thing you're.Looking at. I that's why every school i've ever talked to said boy. If we canjust get them on campus for campus tour, we can really get them here. Well,that's because they're experiencing and seeing themselves in the place becauseit's physical, but i often tell all my my clients that hey we're getting readyto do your website and one of my biggest complaints is the websites thati see where there's just you know empty libraries or there's. You know, here'sthe shot, the beauty shot of the i of...

...the building that no one is walkingaround no one's in because a taking these shots in summer and nobody's oncampus and for whatever reason. But my argument is- is that you, students cansee, cannot see themselves in that unless they see another student,another human in that and all the more important to make sure that ourphotography or videos are stories that we tell the engagement that we give areall inviting someone to participate and be a part of it. I mean i'd rather seethirty pictures on the website of just people standing in line of in thecoffee, shop or or you know, just candid shots. You know kind of callthem journalistic shots where just you know capturing real life, becausethat's when we can really start to picture ourselves and see ourselves inthe story, and so i love the fact that you'd mentioned that, and i love thefact too, that again most students- you know ninety percent of them, who finisha campus to are going to end up at that school, and i know that was the casefor for my kids when they, when they were shopping for college. And it'swhat i hear a lot of places and i think that being able to tell that story andhave that experience is so so critical. It's a lusive now bard. I got to saythat the whole pandemic and ovid is made this more difficult from me. I'm abit of an old guard guy in there been ever but and then, when you say yes, wegot to get him to campus. But what are you doing? You can't get in be campus.How many, how many technology pieces? Can you do it? Obviously we have to dothat. We have to be nimble enough to do that, but i do believe that one of thekeeping the main thing the main thing idea is, as we come out of the pandemic,one of the things about nathan that we do are college fairs and so our office in particular. We are easierto get back on the road and meet people and see them face to face, so they thencan come to campus. So it's a difficult challenge more difficult than ever, buti think that one to one face to face connection to hear stories and do do oncampus is is the best case scenario. That's great, that's great and justkind of transitioning into this next thing that we want to talk about. Youknow before we kind of end our conversation here to days this i did it.He kind of alluded to the fact that nat...

...cap runs a lot of college fairs or sothere's a lot of one to one in those college fairs and and to me. I thinkthat you know a lot of what we talked about here today is the emotion, thepassion, the story telling you know: how do you want to make sure that, asyou bring kind of new breath into into nat, catin and again, chan has done anawesome, wonderful job? I mean he has set the table for the next phase, butas you bring that next phase of how do you see yourself kind of bringing thatpassion, i mean you are a passionate guy, but bringing that into natha andhelping all the member schools start to understand how they can be moresuccessful in utilizing these stories and utilizing these emotionalexperiences and utilizing these face to face engagements through things likecollege firs? Well, it's first, just a one more time reiterate the fact that afollowing someone who's done something so well as daunting. The idea of it isand to be totally human, asia's a little bin, intimidating yeah. So i'mwho i am and what i've done and so we're going to bring that same kind ofenergy. That kimpton came out of energy, some kind of excellence, and then wehave to execute and do what we said we're going to do well. Those are mythree es that i work on all the time: energy and enthusiasm excellence andthey were going to execute what we set out the plan that we do so that's on mymind and to build upon the foundation that chant has has said before us. But what i hope will happen is the schoolsthat are doing this well will just continue to learn from, and the otherthing about this is that we have a real strong college. You professionalrespect for one another, so we get together. That's part of what professor,that is a big part of this to so those that are doing it well will continue toenergize those that might be kind of wrestling and struggling. A very realchallenge for us in this industry in the enrolment industry is the departureof leaders from the industry overall, not every week, but almost every week iget another announcement of her another in roman position. That's open publicschools, research, one university! So there is going there there's a vacuumin that regard for leadership, so whatever it is, we've got to find a wayto do it, and what we're going to do is...

...collaborate with our board andcollaborate with our staff and say all right. How can we do this fill to bringthat kind of energy and enthusiasm to all the campuses to ensure that we'redoing it well and here's what i think about in that regard? It's all aboutthe students, it's all about the families when i feel a little bit anddiscouraged or perhaps intimidated by the task, i think about students whoneed to hear our stories from our schools. Students o need to have theirlives, changed and remember what my life was like by that changing. Theni'm invigorated to the task and ready to accept the challenge. That's howthat's how we'll approach it! That's how we hope we will execute or ourplans moving forward. That's great that's great, and before we kind of gethim the last thing i just kind of want to put a plug out for nacka, because iknow that i've worked with nat cap for several years. We've worked on severalwebsites and and different aspects of that through chance leadership, but ialso know that one of the things that drives matta is membership and we mighthave some people on the call that are a faith based school that might beinterested in learning more about how they can gain more professionaldevelopment. How they can. I join a group of like minded individuals, forthat. Just give you a couple of minutes just to say how might they get involvedyeah. Well, thank you for doing that. Whenever the announcement went out acouple months ago about my appointment as the new executive director, i gottwo emails. We have multiple emails, but two right away. One was from aleolom who is a high school guidance counselor to face based school, and shesaid to me a couple things tell congratulations, i'm so site you'regoing to get to do this, but to maccab has been the single best professionaldevelopment instrument in my life as a guidance counselor. So there's a casethrough twelve education face base part of this that we definitely want to makesure we emphasize so, if they're out there and there you're working at at aface based institution and you're in the case through twelve industry yeah.We want you to be a part of nacta because it is about the professionaldevelopment. My first and the second was the second was from another vp forenrolment. Who said the same thing? Look i went to a nakab conference manyyears ago. I met people to this day. Who are the ones that i commiseratewith and learn from my first experience was maccab was a national conferenceand when i went, i actually thought...

...wow. There are people like me crazyenough to do this and they do it because, because again face base, theyloved the lord and they love their institutions and they lovely done so.That was such an invigorating thing for me. So clearly, nacca dot org is theway to get plugged in and connected, but eager to have to grow themembership. Absolutely were you er to grow the professional develop in thenational conference that we that we do in the ongoing professional elementthat we do were eager for anyone to come join us because we believe it's abargain and you're going to you're going to experience, get much more outof it than you than you could have ever thought yeah. It is. It is truly abargain, especially for institutions, but even even for individuals. I'm anassociate member just to kind of again transparency on that that you know. Ido a lot of a lot of work in the faith based higher ad institutions, and soi've joined that cap as an associate just to be able to be able tounderstand and take advantage of some of those resources as well so try. Iknow you've got a couple questions you want to kind of finalize with us surejust one last one phil you've done such a great job of giving us the big ideas,and you do it so passionately, but if there would be a quick bullet or anugget that you would share that an individual could implement that youfeel would be beneficial or something that's currently working for you thatthey could benefit from what would you share with them? I think i'll just continue the thoughtof this fire on our campus that we had what i learned from that experience asa young professional was the details matter at every little detail of ourjobs, preparing for a podcast getting the call sheet adit time, so i'mprepared to talk about it. I was a server when i was a student andi worked a little mom and pop shop. My training was here's the note book andhere's the menu go, take an order. Who's terrible was crazy. I graduatedwent to graduate school, worked out a more professional place and they didsolo detail training and one of their court. Tenants was at the other, was keep your head on aswivel okay, but the attis at attention...

...to detail. When you go to a table, youpre bus, you get a little piece, so the details matter. Yes, the big picture ofthe dream of what we're talking about is hopefully encouraging andinvigorating to us all, but the way to get to that dream and be successful.It's all about the details, the details that make things excellent. That's bein,corney offer to an individual to an organization that say all right. Whatcan i be doing today that is detailed and down in the in the in the the dirt?Now me personally, sometimes i need help and saying okay so come here.Let's work on the details, i hear your big vision top and get over here. Soit's about finding the right people to help. You do that so for me, attentionto detail making sure that what we're doing is going to bring us aboutsuccess and results, love it. Thank you for sharing that fill. I'm sure thatfor people who may not be familiar with you or not cap, you've earned some fanstoday. So if anyone would like to get in touch with you, what would the bestway for them to do that? Be well, it's interesting because i'm in transition.So for three more days it's a certain email of dress, but but i would as notto it. I i do i'm going to give you my gmail address. If that's okay will thatbe that be a yeah i so cook philco, okay, one one one at g malcom as we getinto that cap i'll sume, those duties here and in a few weeks and i'm readyto go an eager. We have a wonderful staff there, not just chance, but aseason professional staff that are ready to go, got an email from themissa saying phil indianas ready for you said, i'm ready to so we're gettingup there but fill cook one d n, one at gmail com and then, of course, all ofthe net cap staff are eager to serve anyone out there who, whose interestmay be piqued by the work and the good work that we're doing together. Thankyou feel it's been a pleasure getting to know you during this process, and ilook forward to getting to know you even better bart. Do you have anyparting thoughts before we end the podcast episode yeah? I just want to kind of reiterateseveral things that fill said. I mean, i think that the attention to details sis something it's a huge huge part,...

...because i mean, if we're going to tellstories if we're going, to communicate our passion, we have to do it with somethought and some planning and some details. I mean we can't just you know,tell a story that doesn't have any details, and so i think that that's animportant thing and then i just kind of keep going back to the fact that wehave got to as professional hiered marketers really start to articulatethe benefit of what our experience is. All about. I mean, especially if you'rea school, that's really focused on traditional undergrad. You've got to beable to tell that story. You've got to be able to tell that benefit, becausethe assumption that that's just the path is eroding- and so we've got to bea little bit more creative in in telling those stories and inarticulating that huge huge benefit that very few other places can oneindividual have such a life change in the short four years outside of ahigher education experience, and so i think it's important for us tocommunicate that articulate it well and tell those stories very well. Thank you.Bark well said, as we end the podcast, we want toremind everyone that two great companies come together to make thishappen. The high red marketer podcast is sponsored by barts company, cablesolutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented,a marketing execution, printing and mailing provider of higher ed solutions.On behalf of bard kayler, i'm troy singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the higher edmarketer to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the show inyour favorite podcast player. If you are listening with apple podcast, we'dlove for you to leave a quick rating of the show, simply tap the number ofstars. You think the podcast deserves until next time...

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