The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode · 2 months ago

How to Articulate Distinctiveness: Making Your Small School Stand Out

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Marketing can be a difficult proposition for small institutions in higher ed, but intentional collaboration with vendors and other schools can add incredible value to their brand.

Dr. Nathan Long , President of Saybrook University , gave us the secret sauce on how they found partners who helped double their enrollment in less than a decade.

By coming together as collaborators rather than competitors, small schools can serve all their students better.

Join us as we discuss:

- Challenges facing smaller institutions and higher ed (6:30)

- How intentional collaboration helped Saybrook boost enrollment (13:00)

- Advice on social media opportunities for engagement (25:44)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Dr. Nathan Long 

- Twitter 

- Saybrook Insights Podcast

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website or search for The Higher Edge in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to The Higher ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, dontor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the Higher ed Marketer Podcast. My name is Troy Singer. Here with Bart Taylor. Today we have a wonderful conversation with the president of Saybrook University. His name is Dr Nathan Long, and he makes a great case for how to be authentic and successfully marketing your university through that authenticity. He's someone that you want to listen to, but more importantly, someone you want to follow and get to know. Yeah. I think that's a really good point, Troy, and I really liked the conversation that we had with Dr Long. It's very articulate and has a really a lot of really passionate things to talk about. And I will give him credit. He's taken a school from an enrollment about three fifty over a thousand in seven or eight years, and so he talks about how he's done that authenticity and their messaging is a big part of that. And he'll also go through and someone talk about some of the other things that they've done in ways that they've been invested in different opportunities, but also invested in a collaborative environment with some other schools. And so a lot of really good information here, a lot of you know, kind of what I would call kind of on the edge thinking on how to market and think about how to manage the resources at a small institution. So really good conversation. Here's our conversation with Dr Nathan Law. We are so appreciative that Dr Long is giving us his time and his wisdom about all the wonderful things that are happening at Saybrook University. But before we get into that part of the conversation, Dr Long, if you would, could you share with us anything that you've learned in the past week or two that would be deemed either interesting or unique that you think listeners would be interested in hearing about. Well, this has nothing to do with higher education, so I'm gonna you know, we we've been inundated with a ton of stuff about the royals, right Queen Elizabeth, that's the way. So I was remarking to my daughter who is actually studying over there, I'm like, you know, this is pretty impressive. You know, all the pageantry all the morning, and she goes, yes, and can you imagine this that she has a crown that weighs two point three pounds and she's worth five million dollars. There's that was something new I learned this week about the Yeah, right, I mean that's kind of crazy. Yes, we know that they're prominent. We knew that they were wealthy, but to put actual numbers and how heavy that crown is, it's very interesting.

So thank you very much. Well, you're welcome. You're welcome. Dr Long. I think the reason why we have you on today is there's so many great things going on at Saybrook University, and it's probably of a size that is typical to a lot of our listeners. It's, you know, not a large university, and it's probably you're facing some of the same challenges that other universities your size are facing. So if you would tell our listeners a little bit about Saybrook and then we'll get into the conversation about the growth and the reasons why you feel you're experiencing that growth. Yeah. Absolutely, So I'll give the shortened version. I can give the hour long or the you know, three minutes of focus on the three minute thank you You're welcome. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, we can all appreciate brevity in this day and age. So Saybrook University was founded fifty two years ago and almost fifty two years ago in one and it's the Humanistic Psychology Institute, uh. And it grew out of a whole series of institutes across the country that we're steeped in humanistic psychology, which is known as the third force in psychology. Bottom line is, over those fifty two ish years, uh, Saybrook has grown from one PhD program in the seventies after he gained accreditation, added a couple more, and now today stands it, you know, roughly twenty six masters and PhD programs across a range of disciplines including counseling, psychology, clinical psychology, integrative medicine and health sciences, and a degree entitled Transformative Social Change. We also have business programming as well as some other unique certificate programs that support practitioners out in the field. As you mentioned, we are a smaller University in terms of those that are out there, we just hit a thousand fourteen students as of our thank you, We were pleased. We have grown from right around four fifty back in two thousand fourteen to that one thousand number just about eight years later. So I have seen that growth along with a number of investments and growth and our faculty, our staff, and and and of course across multiple other areas. So it's been great and I guess the most important thing in terms of how we deliver education, said Say Brooke, actually was one of the first pioneers in the distance education space and notably a nonprofit institution of higher learning. Our founders were actually folks that if you're in higher ed you know these people. They're Abraham Maslow, They're Carl Rogers, James Bugental people that were notable in psychology that we're uh and served as our initial faculty and board members that broad Saybrook into existence. And that distance model was designed to as role o may uh paraphrasing here, but it's an...

...actually below the formal walls of higher education and create greater access to students who wanted that rigorous, high end education, if you will, back in the day, So these faculty would come from all over, you know, whether as IVY leagues or the elite private institutions to teach, you know, usually twice a year for those students. We've kept a lot of that model intact, mostly virtual, and all of our programs and have delivered, I think, and continue to oliver a very excellent educational experience across all of our programs. Dr Long, you've recently said that in spite of some of the challenges that faces the higher industry will describe that you are very optimistic. So the set of foundation for our conversation, if you would, if we can kind of talk about what some of those challenges are, what you deemed them to be, and then the reason why you are optimistic, either as higher ed as a whole or what you're doing at Saybrook. Yeah, and I think I appreciate the question, Troy. I think the many of my colleagues, I will say, out across the country would resonate with these I don't think there are any big secret, right, but you know, most of us in higher education, whether we're the smaller nonprofit privates to the larger institutions, are dealing. I think the first point would be with a crisis of confidence in higher education from the general public, right. So we're seeing that more and more in the news media. Uh, questions around the value of a degree, questions around what is being taught, how it's being taught, and so I think that is really one of the more psychological components that higher education institutions broadly are challenged with. I think, secondly, you know the other major challenges out there, and it's connected to the first and was alluded to. It is the return on investment. So if I, as a student, I'm going to take out numerous student loans or even some student loans, I want to have some relative assurance that I'm going to be able to pay those back with a career that is going to be lucrative enough to help me pay those back and have a long term earning potential. Uh. And I think that's a real critical piece that for most of our incoming students and our current students and those who have graduated today. I think it's most important to note that colleges and universities are seeing such a dramatic shift from that those days of yesteryear, I think when probably wasn't about getting the job at the end of the rainbow, right, it was expanding your mind, living your life to you know, a better more you know, civically minded life and doing those things. It's now turned into very much. Uh, those are important, but the what job can I get with this degree? How am I going to be successful? And I think third is is the cost of a higher education experience, right, So that's the other challenge. And and we my team and I were just talking about this the other day, So if it's okay, I'd like the just, you know, opine about this for...

...a moment. I think the one of the key pieces around the costs of higher education in the national discourses that colleges and universities are overpriced, they're charging too much. But that doesn't get at the nuance, right, And I think one of the problems that we have as an industry is articulating clearly what that nuance is. And that nuance is that, for example, small nonprofit private institutions are required to really fund everything soup to nuts, you know, within their infrastructure. State institutions have some state subsidies, federal subsidies that support their their work. And so you see varying different degrees of cost levels for students, and I think it's hard to impart that to the public about what actually goes into it. You've got to think, we've got to pay for our faculty. Understandably, we want great faculty, we want great student services to support our students through. And I think it's creating some challenge and push for institute sations around the enrollment front, around decision making for prospective students, and the collective consciousness, you know, that kind of unsurety about the college experience in general. So many schools are are just now, you know, depending on where they are really getting down to understanding enough profit and and this isn't the place to go into net profit and the business of higher ed. But I do think that something that you said there was was really critical is being able to articulate that differentiation, especially the smaller schools. You know, I was talking to someone today at lunch and we were we were discussing about how so many small schools think that they compete against other small schools when the reality is they're competing against the state systems. And I think that to have that mindset and be able to differentiate yourself more from the other options of community college of state systems of other things, and and explain why a small school might be a better or more intimate setting for your educational experience. I think that that seems to be one of the areas. I mean, obviously you've got a lot of levers that you've been pulling it at, Saybrook, including you know, the idea of the infrastructure and being able to share costs with with um through across that. But I think, you know, maybe tease out a little bit just about this idea of how to market your institution in that differentiating way of really being able to articulate your distinctives. You know, so I was a state school kid, you know, I got my bachelor's, masters, and doctor at all from public institutions. Proud of those. The core reality is, I would say, it's not that. I mean, yeah, you could say technically we're competing, but we're providing greater capacity for the numbers of individuals who are looking to get into programs that state institutions can't necessarily provide access to, right because there's a limitation on the number of students and a cohort, for example. And so I think to your point, Bart, that if we can lean into here's a wee can offer, and we can offer a better, more integrated, individualized experience right for those students who are seeking us out and then to liver it. That's gonna be...

...key the second piece. And you know we've talked about this a lot at Saybrook and and across our system, that we're a part of authentically telling the story of you, of us. When we start focusing on everything else around us, when we start talking about, uh, you know, the things that don't really enter into Saybrook's orbit, we we start to drift once we start to pull things back in about who we are, what our legacy is, what our mission is, why we have so much to offer to our students, and talking about that value proposition is a small nonprofit private the sky's the limit. That is so critical that we do tell that story. We we talk about opportunities, um, you know, because I think so many times small schools they tend to focus on what they don't have compared to others as opposed to what they do have. And I think that it's so critical that we really lean into sometimes the smallness is the strength, and really being able to articulate that well would go very far now, one thing I'd like to kind of talk about. I'm gonna let Troy kind of open up this next question is talk a little bit more about these collaborations. You kind of, you know, spoke a little bit to it, but the idea of of especially the infrastructure and being able to reduce that cost per student, because obviously if you can do that, there might be more room in the budget for marketing and some of the other things. Fabulously you bring that up. So TCS Education System is our system in which we are one of six schools. The exciting piece of this is back in ten Saybrook made the decision to join the system. The board did at the time, and we were in a parallel process where they were searching for their new president, which turned out to be me, and then turning out to figure out how can we economize make more efficient as the infrastructure that we have to focus in on our academic mission and TCS fit the bill. Coming in as a previous college president from a smaller institution. The thrill, the absolute thrill, was to not have to find where my benefits for my staff was coming from, find where you know, financial aid, packaging, all the things that are not sexy when it comes to higher education, but are so vital to the life of the institution. We're provided by TCS, but it's more than just a third party service provider. They do provide marketing, which is vital and would love to talk more about that, especially on this podcast, along with HR and other supports. It's also this constellation of professionals working together. So the presidents all work collaboratively together across institutions. You do not see that typically in higher education. The vice presence for academics work collaboratively, and on and on and on. And what's exciting about that is there's this a spree to core about how we engage interact. If we're having a challenge at an institution, we're able to talk at to if you know, collectively there's an issue COVID nineteen was...

...you know, principally comes to mind. Uh, you know, in terms of how we were able to you know, really grapple with that and succeed through what was a very odd and very difficult period for a lot of institutions. I think that's the benefit of the system and uh, you know, but again I think it's important to note that being part of that system. It's not just about purchasing services like you would with an O p M. It's really about becoming partners within and that you have core obligations to each other. Uh, you know, for the common social and community impact that our students, faculty, and staff have. We will be right back after a word from our sponsor. Today's podcast is brought to you by spoke Note, the simple way to add video to anything. If you're looking for an innovative, effective way to get someone's attention, you really ought to check out spoken Note. They make these easy to use QR code stickers that allow you to record and share personalized videos with anybody. We're seeing spokenote stickers used on campuses in some really interesting ways, such as outreach to prospective students, maybe through acceptance letters, welcome messages from student ambassadors during the campus visit and orientation, student life applications like placing about me videos outside of dorm room, even personalized fundraising appeals from the development office and athletic recruiting videos from coaches. The applications for SPOKENOE in and out of education are really endless. Try them out today by placing an order at spokenote dot com welcome back. Let's rejoin the conversation right here on the higher ED marketer. That's really interesting. And again, I had a lunch with someone today and we were talking Higher ED. We're both on Higher ED, and his one of the ending questions was, what do you think the future of hired looks like? I mean, there's a lot of challenges coming. I mean, you know, you've you've kind of alluded to it earlier dr long about just the the rising costs, you know, the way that you know the public perceives the value even you know, the the enrollment cliff that that's being discussed and things like that. And so I guess part of the question that I have is is, you know, this collaborative model seems to be one of the answers moving forward. And you kind of indicate a little bit, and I specifically for our audience today. I mean, certainly we've talked about a lot of the other ways that the collaboration works. But let's talk a little bit about that marketing collaboration, because I think that's where a lot of people might be interested. Because as as you know, a lot of smaller schools, marketing staffs are limited. You might have two, three, five, ten people. But the amount of marketing opportunities out there, whether it's you know, from social media like TikTok all the way to print to web there's a video, there's a lot of expertise that's that's needed to know adequately market a university. Talk a little bit about what that what that does in your collaborative environment. Our marketing team,...

I would say, I just got an email from the chief operating officer of our system announcing for the I think ninth or tenth year in a row, the marketing team has won several Eddie Nazi Awards, which are pretty uh, you know, prominent in the field. That's just an example of the fact that we have this award winning incredible marketing team at our disposal that Saybrook on its own, to your point, Bart would never have been able to afford to, you know, ever be able to leverage in that way. And they do so much for us, from brand development to website maintenance and creation of new port program and portal pages, to lead gen marketing and working with our vendors to tweak our leads and make sure that we're getting the right mix of those coming into our admissions team. Here at Saybrook, uh and everything in between. Honestly, you just wouldn't have that capacity with a smaller institution. The point when I first started it at Saybrook, our website and god bless whoever did it before. So I'm not trying to be critical, but it needed a lot of work. Let's just say it was front facing, back facing. No one could find anything. Everyone was trying to figure out, like where do I apply for admission? So I talked with our marketing team and together we were like, we need to go through a full rebrand. And I kid you not. Within nine months, we had rebranded the entire institution from A to Z. Now that would typically take years to get done, and that team was able to mobilize and bring us on board in a way that in terms of branding and literally I think that was functional to our success in enrollment over those you know, a couple of years, because we had had stagnated and that brand differentiation, the way in which we were leveraging social and other paid media sources for search was instrumental. Really warms my heart when I'm able to work with an award winning marketing team on a daily basis. Yeah, that's that's pretty incredible, and as you said, a lot of small schools just wouldn't have the resources to be able to pull out That's that's really exciting. So do you think that, um, you know, as we're kind of talking about this collaborative approach, do you think that other schools your size and your experience, I mean, you you've been president a couple of different institutions. Do you think they could achieve similar outcomes without going into kind of the formal collaboration that you did, or do you think that you know, it's more difficult. Well, I think in this day and age, lets let me start with this. The president of our system, Michael Horowitz, is often said, and we would fully agree, there are four thousand institutions of higher learning in the country more depending on what you're putting into that bucket, that number is way too many. You know, if you really think about the scope of competition. You mentioned bart that you know, demographic cliff that's coming up, You're you're seeing a shrinking pool of students for the longer term. Sure, if you want to try and go it alone, but my question would always come back to two, Why do...

...it if you don't have to why would you force that sort of pain onto you and your institution when you could find other collaborative, consocial opportunities. I'm not suggesting that TCS is the only way to go, but certainly the model itself. When you're able to preserve your governance structure, you're able to get quite a bit of value. Uh, not only for what you put into it in terms of money, but in terms of human capital. It pays for itself and then some in the longer term. And the bottom line, this is the key, is that our students are who benefit. It's not just about the faculty or to the students, or the staff and the leadership. It is about our students. And when we can serve our students better as smaller institutions, that's the kind of crux of I think why that relationship, those those symbiotic collaborations are important. So I guess in a nutshell, I would say the more collaboration, the more ways in which we can line to come together, the better will be as an industry, as a sector, and the smaller institutions will be in general. DR long earlier, when you were describing the benefits of collaboration for marketing, you touched on enrollment growth, and you also mentioned that you reached one thousand UH students for the first time, so we would like to know if you would share how the collaboration has positively affected your enrollment growth. So open book on this front. And it's never one individual, right, but I think the collaboration itself served as the catalyst for much of what we've been able to do over the last eight years during our affiliation. So I would say, first and foremost, it was really resetting the marketing, the brand work that I mentioned before that was critical to getting our name out there and and more brand penetration. Secondly, I think the piece around lead generations, so we were able to really start investing dollars as we started you know, creating more enrollment and creating more surplus revenue in order to you know, put that back into the infrastructure to advertise more and in turn, as we were able to do more investments on that front, invest more in the faculty and staff infrastructure over the years, which in turn has created stronger student confidence and excitement over the work that we've been doing. So it's it was it has been a snowball effect. That doesn't mean there aren't still challenges. It doesn't mean there are, you know, we we just give up and say, oh we hit a thousand, We don't have to be vigilant anymore. But those were some really key pieces. And I think also evaluating very very thoughtfully and courageously what programs are working and what are not because in the marketplace it's saturated already with a lot of academic programs that are out there, and really thinking about I think this goes back to bar It's question earlier around differentiation. Where do you play best in right?...

What is where? Where can you deliver the best experience for your students? And sometimes not every program is worth uh the institution doing because it takes you off mission, off scope, off topic, off story of what you're trying to accomplish. So I would say that growth has really occurred in ways that we couldn't imagine. I say the probably the fifth most important and I would probably put that somewhere near the top of this too, is you know, listen online delivery is has been critical for Saybrook University. And as someone who was reared and has taught in on ground large institutions, I am and I have been a convert of the virtual experience if it's done really well and with intention around personal relationship building. So if our faculty are patched into our students, if you, if our faculty or are delivering the best say can you and our students are feeling a sense of community, that online experience just generates an ongoing positivity around their overall Saybrook experience. And that's what I mean by If we're not remaining vigilant enough around how we deliver and we get lazy or we're you know, we're thinking, Okay, we've we've we've done what we need to do, those gains can be lost very quickly. So not to be negative, but I think it is also about giving the best product you possibly can brand marketing, and then also maintaining all of those uh fundamentals and excellence in the delivery consistently and ongoingly. So I love that because, I mean it gets back to those four pays. I mean, you've got you know, promotion and product. I mean we're talking about that right now as two of those. But I really like the idea of of what you just communicated there because I think that's a little neuggetive of of high reed marketing that I want everybody to realize is that part of the success of that online community that you've done is actually create community and create emotion, create that and that's part of what our marketing needs to reflect is that even if you have an online program, being able to show that community, because at the end of the day, all of us want community and all of us are wired that way. Um, you all probably know that better than anyone being the you know, based on the psychology that you're teaching your students, but the idea that we need to be able to show that and demonstrate that as one of those distinctives and if we do have a very strong online program. I love the fact that you just kind of articulated that, and I'm sure that you know TCS and the marketing team are using some of that to be able to communicate that to prospective students on why your online community is unique and different than you know, just the standard you know, log into moodle and check off your you know what you're doing. I appreciate that, Bart, Thank you. Dr Long. You are also considered being active on social media, and you're considered doing it effectively and successfully on behalf of the university and would just like for you to share your approach and the reason why you feel it's...

...important and if you are satisfied with the results that you're able to achieve, um in the communities that you're able to connect with. Oh, this is a an awesome question. Uh. Yeah, So social media is I realized for many it's the bane of their existence. Especially I've talked to many a college presidents who are like, I will not go on Twitter, I will not do Facebook. They just avoid it like the plague. And the reality is I get it, Like you know, if I if there were other venues or means to do it. But here's the other side to that is that I've been able to as a president connect with communities at Saybrook and beyond in ways that I didn't think I could. Now. Would I like to have more likes or more engagement, you know, to kind of reinforce the work that I'm doing. Yeah, of course I think we all would. But where we've seen success is that ability to connect with our faculty, our staff, our alumni, in our community. Uh, in additional ways to our standard institutional pages. So my process, you know, there is there is no formula that I've applied I wish I could say like it's rigidly disciplined UM, but I definitely am all about several things. One is posting at least five to six times a week, and I intersperse those postings not just with things about you know, here's something about the university or an event. I'm posting things about the people of our institution, the students who have been successful and congratulating them, our alumni who are doing great things out in the world, our faculty who are killing it on research or teaching, and really you know, acknowledging them. And then we also have a podcast, so, uh saybrook Insights is one of our podcasts, and we've been really amping up and ramping up the site and the way in which it looks UM, and people are really bonding to that, and they say, oh, so, here's this online institution that is really doing things that are out there. The presidents there, the faculty are there, they're all talking to each other, they're engaging in that way, and so they're seeing a vibrancy back to what we were just talking about, a community that is is really patched into each other. And and so I find it as one of those things that I'm always working to tweak the messaging, always working to uh figure out how to further connect with students and alumni in our communities and ways that will be meaningful to them and also uh value added right in terms of their experience overall. Um. And I think the other piece of this is, uh, you know, if you're asking, I think you're asking implicitly in this what advice would I give to college presidents and other leaders who are out there? Just do it and be patient with it, and you know, make sure you're focusing on. Going back to the first thing I was saying is tell your story, worry tell be authentic. If if you're not into talking about...

...students and alumni kind of second hand, talk about you and your family and things that that that can connect with people on a personal level. People love to know who their leaders are, what they're doing, what they're about, and just to get started, and that makes all the difference. You don't have to have bells and whistles. You just need to be out there and be connected in that way. The last point I'll make is that that has a So I'm under no illusion that I'm bringing in like thousands of students to say Brooke University because of my social media. What it does do is it allows the larger university brand to expand across the internet right and across the communities, and so it feeds the institutional brand, It feeds the other connected assets that we have as an institution. And the more we do that, the better it gets, and I think the stronger it is. So you're telling us that we should not look on TikTok for the latest dance that you're going to be doing to bring those students in. I need I do have kicktok videos that they were experimental fair enough anymore. It's it's interesting, and I want to just underscore what you said about authenticity. I was at a I was at a new president's retreat several years ago. There were you know, one of the organizations I'm a part of brought in several new presidents for for a retreat, and one of the president's bless his soul. He was like, you know, raise his hand and said, hey, I I've been thinking about getting on social media, but I've had a few people tell me I need to be more hip. If I'm going to be on social media, I need to I need to kind of put on this persona, and I said, no, what what the world needs as an authentic president. They don't need a hip president and need an authentic one. And so I would just what I'm hearing you say is the exact same thing, is that be yourself, be who you are, be the best version of that on social media, because that's what's going to help. And let's face it, college presidents aren't very abusially unless it's Walter Kimbro who has been on the podcast. He he goes as the hip hop press. He can pull it off. He's done a great job with that. He's he's now at I think he's a I can't remember if he's a more. I think it's more House Now. He did a great job and he can pull it off. But he's not the average college president. So that's that's great. So yeah, Santa, the same thing, same same kind of feel on that front. Ye. I would also argue Dr Long that you have a very cool vibe and that is a subset under hip. So I give that to you, and I would encourage our listeners to go out and verify that by following you and pulling down some of your content. I appreciate that I'll get my dance going on TikTok too, and we'll just s as we bring our conversation to a close with like to ask this question and that we usually end our conversations...

...with, is there a piece of advice that you could offer that we didn't cover today two listeners so they may experience some of the wonderful success that Saybrook has experienced over the last few years. That's a great question. I mean, I I think some of this maybe rehash if that's all right, Bet, you know, maybe to bring it home and and I think you know for me, you know, just in terms of where we're at. You know, first of all, be vigilant in everything that you do, from marketing to finance to enrollment. Never take anything for granted. That's top notch number one. Um, never assume, you know, always be vigilant. I think the second thing is really related to the marketing piece. And I think you've heard it now like five or six times between you, Troy, maybe and Bart. Be authentic in your larger institutional marketing to the work that you're doing as a college president or as a marketing leader and enrollment leader. Uh, lean into that space because that's where your students are really hoping to find that connection with you and with your particular focus. And and then the third thing I think ultimately is, you know, have fun with what you're doing, whether it's the marketing or the vigilance piece. We have so much to offer the public um and higher education is in a space right now where yes, there are challenges, but if we really revamp our thinking a bit and reframe how we're kind of coming at things, there's so much opportunity. So sees that opportunity, have fun with it and figure out new ways to explore how we can reach new markets, and don't get caught up in what we can't do, but what we can do to really, you know, support the public good through higher education. And I think those would be my three takeaways. Thank you, dr Long. How can people either find you or reach out and contact you if they would like to do so? Well, I think I've got these all memorized right down for the long term. Facebook find me at Facebook slash Saybrook President, Twitter handle Saybrook you pres with a Z LinkedIn Saybrook President again. And then of course you can find me on the web online. And I will also make a shameless plug for our podcast, Saybrook Insights. You can find us on Apple, iTunes, YouTube, We have a companion video cast along with Spotify and all major podcast platforms. You can learn all about Saybrook University through those venues as well as what I'm doing. Dr Nathan Long, thank you for a wonderful and rather hip conversation. It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate it. Bart. Do you have any final thoughts before we sign out? You know a lot of time, this is when I will do kind of a summary. But Dr...

Long did a great job in his last comments about a summary, so I'll just kind of say that, um, you know, authenticity, authenticity, authenticity is going to be your friend storytelling and being able to, you know, tell those stories authentically and being able to, you know, accurately and articulately to talk about your differentiators in an authentic way. I think that kind of summarizes a lot of what we're doing, and then also really consider this whole idea of collaboration. I think that, uh, Dr Long kind of talked about that and and and their relationship with with TCS, and he mentioned Dr Horowitz. We actually had him on the podcast a few episodes ago, so be sure to go back and listen to Dr Horowitz is um conversation and if you want more information about about that particular system. But I do think that the future is going to be more collaborative in engagement and shared knowledge with universities. I mean, we we have to do that to be able to survive. So thanks so much for the time today. Oh my pleasure. Thank you, right, thank you. Bart. The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by Taylor Solutions, advancing brands that advanced education, also by Ring Digital, increasing lifting yield within your emissions funnel, and by Thing Patented, a marketing execution company combining direct mail and unique digital stacks for higher ED outreach success. On behalf of Bart Kaylor my co host, I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for listening. You've been listening to The Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with Apple Podcasts, We'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars do you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,.

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