The Higher Ed Marketer
The Higher Ed Marketer

Episode 65 · 3 months ago

Live Chat: Creating Better Accessibility for Greater Outcomes

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In higher ed marketing, it is important to stand out from everyone else and create a sense of belonging for prospective students. One of the best technological tools for accomplishing this are live chat systems.  

In this episode, Ben Congleton, CEO and CoFounder at Olark, talks about his journey to live chat systems from the early days of website chat providers and how they create a more accessible, seamless journey for prospective students. 

Join us as we discuss:

  •  How live chat differs from chat bots, automation, and AI
  •  Where on your website to deploy live chat systems
  •  What are best practices for staffing a live chat system 

The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities to engage interested students before they even apply. You are listening to the Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies and so much more. If you are looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to another episode of the Higher Ed Marketer podcast. My Self Choice Singer from thing patented. Each week, partners with Bart Kaylor of Kaylor solutions to bring you conversations with higher ed marketers that we feel the entire higher ed marketer community can benefit from. Today we talked to Ben Conglington from O lark about live chat solutions for Higher Ed Marketing and how it can work for your college. Yeah, Ben does a great job of kind of explaining the benefits of of live chat. I think we all have experience with customer service and and doing different things online and leveraging live chat solutions, whether you're doing an order with lands end or, you know, any other ecommerce platform. We're pretty familiar with that. But live chat is something that a lot of schools have implemented. Yet a lot of, I think, misconception about it are out there, and so ben does a good job of kind of deconstructing some of that, helping us to understand a little bit about what the what the common allees between those solutions are, as well as just to kind of De mystify a little bit the difference between, you know, live human chat versus what what's being known as chat bots, and so I think this is a great episode for anyone who's looking at ways to better service their their audiences, whether it's enrollment, whether it's development, whether it's, you know, internal students. There's a lot of really good conversation around that. Today here's our conversation with Ben from O Lark. It's our pleasure to welcome been congleton to the High Reed Marketer podcast. He is the CEO of o Lark, which is a live chat solution for Higher Ed marketers and before we get into the advantages and some of the best use cases for live chat solutions, would love for you, been, to introduce yourself in. How did you come up with this wonderful solution for higher in? Yeah, absolutely so. I'm I'm been congleton. See You and cofounder old Ark. I've been sort of building software, and this is entrepreneur for about thirteen years. I've started all ARC basically leaving a PhD program at the University of Michigan. So I have I don't know, I have a deep, deep higher ed roots. It's exciting to it's likely to be here. My Dad's professor, my sisters a professor, my brother in law's a professor. So, like a I read, is a place that I feel very comfortable in and so...

I guess your question was sort of like how do we how do we get this thing moving? How do we get this started? Yeah, and maybe you're beginnings. Yeah, yeah, sure. So the beginnings, the early, early beginnings, is, you know, I actually, you know, used to run, used to run a webhost and company like in the in the in the early and the mid S, and back then the best way to communicate with the customers on our website was via chat. And in the mid S, you know, company kind of bought our our live chat provider and then sort of shut down the SB product and moved it do a fortune five hundred product, and we searched around in serf and searching, search, and we could not find anything that really worked for sort of our small teams. You know, there wasn't designed for like fortune five hundred call centers. Fast forward two thousand and nine. You know, I'm working on this PhD. I'm sitting, I'm sitting in a PhD seminar class, reading a reading article by Shosama Zubrav I remember this about this intermediation and your thinking, thinking like you know what like if everyone's going to start selling and you know, moving all commerce to the web, how are we going to going to communicate? And and I look back at my time and in two thousand, you know, the Earl in the mid S and you know, thought like okay, like, you know, chat work pretty well for us, but it seemed to just go fortune, fortune hundred one to like att and comcast, like what happened everyone else. And I looked around and there wasn't really a solution out there, like for non giant call centers. And you know, as a learned a lot. You know, I've got a computer science degree at a business degree. Was Work on this PhD and I was like, you know, I think we could maybe build the thing that like we needed ten years ago, and we started building it. Some of our earliest customers were university libraries and university professors. That wasn't never this lie the best use case, but it we start off there and then started seeing a lot of e commerce businesses use US, governments and software companies and the company kind of exploded and grew from there. Isn't that fascinating that, you know? You know, I talked to you in the pre interview a little bit about the idea that I remember back in the S, you know, we were using ICQ, I think it was some kind of little, you know, messaging software, and that was kind of you know, people are using AOL and all kinds of things at that time, and it's funny how, you know, it kind of went away for a while, as you said, kind of went big corporate and now it's coming back and it's funny that, you know, my son who he's twenty two now, he wasn't born until one thousand nine hundred and ninety ninet two thousand. You know, I think that messaging is kind of their natural, natural way of going about things, and so I think it's fascinating. It's kind of come full circle. But now, especially post pandemic, I mean talk a little bit about that. I mean I'm sure a lot of things have happened during the pandemic that kind of required even more of this type of need. Yeah, it was was pretty fascinating, right like. I think a lot of us kind of grew up, my generation grew up like SMS, texting, friends, etc. Now you have facebook Messager, you know. Now you have people using instagram messaging on the side. You know, ticktock, like short rapid text communication right...

...like, is happening constantly, having everywhere. And what's interesting to me is, you know, we've worked of highed for many years, but you know, around the beginning of the pandemic we started to see like a lot more demand for this kind of solution. I think a lot of it was that there's a lot of systems it were built for in person communication. The just broke down when everyone was was remote, and so we see a saw, you know, quite a few universities reaching out to us, probably early two thousand etc. And some of our existing customers were say like hey, how else can you help us. Like we know, we've been working with you got for for a while and and through that process I looked at the space a lot more. I started, you know, talking more deeply to our higher ard customers and understanding, you know, some of the challenges they were facing. And I don't know, I got excited because, you know, I now could go kind of bring those Thanksgiving dinner time conversations back to, you know, what I get to do every day. And so we saw people like, okay, like, you know, we aren't doing campus stores anymore, like how do we how do we engage with with students who are browsing our websites is maybe their first interaction with us as a school? Or like, okay, we have some admitted students, but they're not on campus right now. For example. You know, university organ start off using US in both admissions and housing, and what they learned is basically, when someone gets there, their housing set up there, they're going to show up, like the summer melt is like not a factor once they have a place to stay. And so they started putting our a's and some of their housing groups on chat and so it's been interesting to kind of watch, you know, this sort of customer service focus that we saw happen in e commerce and in service businesses move into universities when most of the interaction is happening via the website, like the basically your enrollment yield funnel has a huge fees of it. That is people interacting with the website, not picking up the phone, and that's been kind of exciting problem to work on because I've been working on that problem and in B tob for a long time and now it's kind of come full circle. It's it's pretty exciting. It is really exciting and I think it's interesting. We've you know, we've got a guess coming up in a couple weeks with Stephenie guy are from. She used to be at RNL and so she was kind of the author of e expectations report and their most recent one last year. was saying that, you know, the website is the number one place a students go to find out information about starting a college and it's a number one place two people go to decide on the content. Is What that drives them and make their decision, even beyond you know, the counselors and everybody else, and so I think it's so important to realize what tools can we put on that website where everybody's already going to make that as frictionless as possible, and I love the idea that chat is one of those tools because we're so used to it. I mean we go to any other, you know, ecommerce platform and like Oh, I've got a problem,...

I'm going to click on the chat and I'm going to type and talk to somebody and get it solved, because I don't want to I don't want to hang out on hold for three hours and I don't want to not get my problem solved and I'm not going to I'm not going to email somebody and wait three days. I just want to get it taken care of and and I love the fact that human chat can do that. Yeah, absolutely, in genes. He's not going to pick up the phone when have question, like, you know, browsing your website. They're not going to they're not going to post a message in your facebook group right, and they're unlikely going to send you an email. So I think like the point is you need to be there where where the person is, whether they're on a mobile device or whether they're, you know, sitting in front of their computer on a tablet. You need need, you need to be there so you're not interrupting flow, so that you can just sort of help people move through, right through that journey. I think you're exactly right on that. With that, there are a couple of different chat solutions out there. Your platform is a live chat solution, but they're also what people commonly refer to as Bots, and I'm sure their advantages and disadvantages to them both. But if you can kind of help us think do that and point some of those out and go into this discussion for others that are maybe contemplating making a decision of a chat solution and then your future. Yeah, I think that's that's a really good question and I think there's a big trend right of seeing seeing chat bots like kind of a I would call it, basically just adding automation to some sort of workflow. We saw this happen in kind of calling up comcasts or eighteen team many years ago, when you got these deep phone trees and had a lot of questions. You're starting to see more of this happen on websites in the reason this happens is because in general, sales people are very good at selling a solution that's like hey, Ai will answer all your questions, you don't have to staff this, you don't need people anymore. And it's a lot easier for someone to say yes, give me that thing, I don't need to spend money on people, I don't need staff, I don't need to staff it. Then it is to say, okay, let me figure out the system. This is going to provide incredible service to the people that that are that I'm trying to serve. So if you're like, you know, a small liberal arts college and you're thinking like okay, like, I can just put this little Bot thing on here and I'll answer everyone's questions, that seems a lot easier than figuring out, you know, how you work with marketing, how you work with your admissions team, how you work with other parts of your school to actually provide incredible service and answer questions that the students might have. So it's so like the story is compelling about why people might choose that. The challenge, I think, with bought only or peer bought is that most of the reason, most of the time that people reach out and want to communicate with some of that institution it's when they have an exceptional case and it's when, like they are trying to get something deeper than a question that they could ask Google or a question that they could ask Sirie. And you could think about Siri is kind of like some of the best ai out there, or Alexa or you know these virtual assistants, and imagine how much money like Amazon and Google will and Microsoft for spending developing these personal assistants...

...and think about all their shortcomings. So I think you know, bots butts are useful and we do some of that that natural language processing. You know bought automation stuff, but my story is always been as a school, you're basically trying to create belonging and you're trying to stand out from everyone else that is in that in that playing field. So you're not trying to commoditize the interaction with your institution viewer website. We are trying to do is automate away some of the really simple things, maybe some of the simple Google query style questions, and then get over to someone who can deal with the nuance and really express to that student or the perspective student what makes you guys different. Like you know how you're able to help someone move through a complicated financial aid process or how you're able to, you know, answer a couple questions, you know in that application process, that reassure them that you know you're going to be there for them once they show up at the institution and you're not just handing them a Bot that refers them to a phone tree or an email address, which I've seen done so many times and it's just disappointing. It really is. And I find myself, I know I've I love Amazon. I've been an Amazon. You know, they now tell you Amazon you know customers, since for me it was like nineteen ninety five thousand nine hundred and ninety six, and I really like it. But the thing that frustrates everything of about it is that when I have a question about something and I go to their customer support, it does do the automated bought and half the time I've already done all the research to figure out what I need. I'm going to the Bott I'm going to the chat because I can't find it on my own. I mean most people, I think, are pretty self sufficient and I think the challenge in customer service, whether it's Amazon or whether it's anybody else is is making it so that the customer feels good about their experience with you at the end of the day, and right now, I never have felt good about the experience that I've had with Amazon because I just goes in circles and you'll finally you might get someplace where you get down to somewhere that you actually get a human on there, but it takes forever. And I know that they do that because call centers cost money. They charge based on the minute, based on the engagement, and so I understand that. But from a college standpoint, like you said, from a liberal arts, small medium size school, we can't afford to do that. I mean we've got to be we've got to be living our brand out all the way down to the way that we do chat and if we are selling, you know, if we see on the page, Hey, we're all about community, you're not a number here all this, but yet click on this chat bought and we're going to make you a number. We're kind of against the brand on that. And so I love the idea that you guys are leveraging ai when it makes sense, but it's not replacing that human relationship and I think it's one of the dangerous and I'm guessing you do too. Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's I think, you know, we think about, you know, old arks philosophy and how we sort of approached Bots, for example, like we've always, you know, we've been thirteen years and and the live...

...chat industry and the live chat business. So we've built the you know, very robust, very robust solution to help that, you know, route to the right person. So, for example, we've done work with slate recently and that's been pretty exciting, where where we can route to the admissions counselor assigned to the person, the student when they come on ask a question or, you know, really really thinking about like that, that you know, complete experience of like, you know, knowing other communication that someone has with the student when they come in, come into chat. I think there's a lot of options to sort of think about this holistic experience for the student that really is trying to trying to create that that belonging, and Ai Automation is a piece of that, but it's not it's not the full solution. I've called maybe twenty percent of the solution. Yeah, well, and I like what you've saying there, because I mean, let's let's talk a little bit about some of the features and accessibility that go into into chat solutions and I think that, you know, I full transparency. I've partnered with O Lark and a couple clients and and have helped them implement a live chat solution and been very pleased with that. And I know that I was part of a Beta test group on on your mobile APP, I think, you know, eighteen months ago or so. And so just help people understand, because I think sometimes there's misconceptions that well, if we have a chat, somebody got to be tied to their desktop, you know, two, seven. Let's talk through that a little bit of what does that look like for an admissions team? Yeah, so I think what you're talking about like, in particulars maybe staffing, and I think staffing as ultimately like one of the one of the biggest objections, like how am I actually going to going to staff this? And I think there's a couple things to keep in mind. Like many, many places already picking up the phone when people call. They don't get very many phone calls, but there is people whose job it is to answer the phone when the phone rings, and you can think of. Chat is sort of in a similar way, like if you have staff or even a like a small call center of any form. Chat's a good option there because you can imagine that now, rather than just doing like one phone call of one person, you can chat with maybe two or three people at the same time be fairly responsive. Generally speaking, we see a lot of like work study students used here kind of, and admissions counselors are a's sort of more kind of student employees, I think are very common to sort of work on. That medium gives you flexible hours, it lets you kind of design around people's schedules in a way that like some of the other you know, on campus jobs also do, but maybe not as much into the evenings. But additionally, like when someone's not there, you don't need to staff at seven. You don't staff much of anything seven at a university, right. And and there's no reason you need to staff chat. I mean you can hide it when you're not there, you can make an email contact form. There's many options and that's pretty industry standard. Right. Very, very, very few places that are not normously large or staff things seven. Let's talk a...

...little bit about that idea. Of using students, because sometimes, and I'm just kind of reflecting back to you things I've heard about it when I've talked about life chat, it's like, well, students really don't know they answers to those questions. But I think your tools and a lot of tools, you can actually pre kind of preconfigure some some typical answers to the typical questions so that there's at least a something to get started on. Is that? Is that accurate? Yeah, well, I think, yeah, you can obviously have shortcuts and hints and things like that, but I also, you know, I think thinking about it in two ways. Right. One, there are some basic questions where you're just building trust, right. These are basic questions where, like a human is going to be better at engaging and having that backforth dialog than, you know, a Bot. And then there's also the opportunity to sort of transfer between departments. So, for example, if you are, you know, having a conversation with admissions, in many cases admissions is not understand all the intricacies of financially and even like, you know, the employees into emissions team, the counselors like that, are that are trained and do this stuff every every you know, enrollment period. So so the ability to kind of transfer over to an expert another department, I think, is a key the key feature to kind of help continue to conversation and get questions answered. And you can imagine that happening within moving from, you know, admissions to housing or moving from you know, kind of a cross cross organization. Yeah, and I speaking of that. That's been another one of the concerns that have been brought up to me as the fact of you know, I might be talking to the admissions team about how important is to have chat from an enrollment standpoint. I mean, I'm a big believer. If you've know anything about me, you'll hear me talking about everything in your marketing needs to be from an enrollment focus first, and so the the website needs to be enrollment focused and all that. So I would even say chat needs to be enrollment focused as much as possible first. But then I always hear people say, well, okay, we'll do that, but as soon as I put, you know, the chat on the home page for enrollment, I'm going to get six people asking me about their red about their transcripts. What do I do? And and so tell me. I mean, obviously you've got bigger schools like University of Oregon. Well, how are they handling that type of thing? Yeah, I would say generally speaking, small schools might put on their home page and kind of look at it as sort of like you know, so often times you'll staff out of registers office, like University of Montana, for exam, not not a small school, but they started off using all our primarily in their registers office and their Dina students had, you know, a lot of good things to say about you know, just using it as a way of like getting things done a lot quicker than in person visits. But generally speaking, because the Jack can be targeted right, you can. You can deploy it in a particular piece of your enrollment funnel that you're trying to optimize. And I and that's that's why I always like talk to most schools that have have trafficks, like think about what your goal is. Right, are you trying to increase your inquiries? Well, let's look at kind of the pages on your on your website that sort of lead towards that inquiry funnel and let's like maybe make it a little...

...easier to get that first touch point kind of help you guys stand out a little bit. You have an online campus tour option like, for example, we recently partnered with student bridge, you know online the campus tour provider, to, you know, make sure that they could, you know, answer questions in real time via that that platform that they've built. So I think thinking about your funnel, thinking about the pages in that funnel where you're trying to move someone through it. So you know, inquiries, high high intent pages on the website that that lead towards inquiries application completion. You know, obviously you can, you can bet it inside of the slate application experience if they're use if they're not using common APP. You can also imagine like, okay, like post Sedman. Okay, what are the sort of resources and website materials that people are navigating post admit? Let's let's embed chat there, let's, you know, try to understand the questions people are asking and move people through that piece of the funnel. And you can kind of even look at that. And the student success side, for example, we had UVA using US for their career so center for just like career advising, because it was a way of like simplifying the ability for people to ask quick questions, get resume reviews and sort of do that type of activity. So you can kind of think about chat as like, yes, like we all communicate, we all talk. Well, you know they're but but I think you can think about it more strategic way of saying, like, okay, like let's look at the student, the entire student in journey from perspective to alumni, and let's look at the pieces inside that journey where we could, we want, we might want to like gain some information, like we want, want to understand what's going on at that stage or a place where we're trying to move a number, like trying to accomplish something, and let's deploy chat there, run some pilots, run some tests and learn something, and I think that's you know, that's generally where I like people to start. Is just like with a goal and we're trying to learn something. You can deployed everywhere and you will learn something as well. Right, right. That's a great point and I love the fact that one of the things that I learned about Oh Lark is that I can I can kind of turn it on and off on different parts of the website or have multiple accounts on different parts so that there's there's some consistency with that, and so I think that's a I think that's a great solution. I also know that your platform has provided accessibility solutions customized for some of your colleges that you work with. When that comes to mind is Galu debt university. Could you explain that and how that might affect how you move forward with solutions for other institutions? Yeah, that's a really good question. I appreciate you bring that up, Troy. So one thing you should know about old ark is, you know, what we are in. This be to be a space for a long time. You know, as a as a company, we're incorporated as a public benefit corporation around accessible technology and this is sort of an area of passion for us. And is therea why we really like working with the universities, because universities are some of our customers who care the most about accessibility, both from like the rational sense...

...that they want everyone to have access to their university to like kind of the more like cultural like benefit of Likedi wanting to to, you know, expand their enrollment based. So that's one of the reasons why I'm so excited about higher ad but to get more more specific, you know, when I think about design and building building solutions, I think it's good to understand all of your all of your constraints. And in one of our customers is gallet at university, and Galia University as a lot of students who come in who their primary language is American sign language. And so even though you know you can type back and forth using chat, if you're hearing impaired, you still like might have a better time expressing yourself using a different medium. And so one of the projects we're doing with them is, you know, really thinking about chat as a medium that sort of let you escalate to video conversations. So we're working with them to let you leave messages in American sign language to sort of escalate chats into realtime video conversations as well. And so I think, you know, these are the kind of kind of benefits you get when you kind of try to bring everyone under the same tent. Is it helps you build solutions for everyone, right, because that that kind of solution benefits you know, regardless of your ability, regardless of what university we're working with like, these are solutions we can bring to them to them as well, like a synchronous video messaging escalation to video call have but I think if you look at through the lens of trying to bring more people into the tent and working with, you know, assists of technology offices, working with, you know, kind of the the assist of technology at community there's there's a lot of room to not tack on accessibility and build it in and just make it part of the core of how you how you solve problems, and that's one thing. It's been super fun working at all Ark and been more exciting for us and working more high right institutions recently. That's great. Are there any other similar solutions that you've provided for other schools? So from accessibility standpoint, I think generally speaking we build like a, you know, the the customer facing chat experience, the experience that you see on every website. That's something that's been heavily worked with with accessibility offices from Berkeley, Harvard and, you know, variety of others. You know some of our corporate customers care a lot about that that as well. And so just get back from the assists of Technology Conference in Anaheim called CSIGN A, California State Northridge and it was pretty exciting to see, you know, talks up there about accessible conversational Ui and like little little and little oh Ark Logos up there on and to its talk about how to build this and you know, it's I think it's it's an area that's been quite fun for us. It's really something that I think gets gets everyone. The team look pretty pretty excited working. We're getting that space. I've seen, like you. It's funny because it's a little bit sad...

...ad because if you kind of walk around like a see Sun, this is big as kind of like the biggest assists of Technology Conference. You sort of when we exhibition booth there. And if people that kind of walk around, there's all these people that do accessibility auditing, like that's there's a lot of auditors there and it you know, and people stop by your booth they're like yeah, you like your guys, your guys stuff is pretty good. Like we get flag of all time. But the funny thing is everyone says they're accessible. So it's like the sad state of affairs. Were like, because you're selling in the high ad or selling a government like everyone's like, Oh yeah, like we're accessible. We have all the sort of Cations, but I think that in general, once you you dive deeper into that, like a lot of people are approaching accessibilities a sort of a check the box functionality and not like let's actually build something that's incredibly usable for a lot of people, and I don't know, I say it's I think there's a big opportunity out there for technologists and universities to embrace that a little bit more and make it easier for people to get in there, not just make it like kind of like Oh, we don't want to get sued kind of standpoint, but more of a like let's let's figure out how to actually make this thing easier for everyone, because I think that, you know, like a curb cut right like on a sidewalk. Yeah, it's great for someone in a wheelchair, but you know, if you're pushing a stroll or you're biking around your kids, like, you know, these types of enhancements benefit everyone and they're not just like something. You know there's a risk assessment problem. Good, we talk a lot about it on the show. Schools are really struggling today to make the same ads been work. Cepms are up eighty nine percent you over year on facebook and instagram. Our College clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi has become so crucial for our clients. With over one million students, close to tenzero five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social lapps and recently one of apples hot APPs of the week, there is simply isn't anything out there like it, and we have seen it all. Zeemi not only provides the best space for student engagement, but the most unique in action will data for their one hundred and sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Zeemi is a must have strategy for Gen Z. Check them out now at colleges dot Zee mecom. That's colleges dot Zee m eecom, and yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. We close each episode by asking our guests, related to their industry and the solutions that they provide, would there be a quick tip or a piece of advice that they could give our marketing audience that they can implement soon after listening or immediately. Do you have any secrets that you've been holding back that you can share? That's a that's a your questions.

So I would say, you know, with Ol arc live chat or any any solution like that, it does not take that long to deploy and start learning. Like it's a simple as adding like a little piece of code to your website. Like we put together a checklist for enrollment folks. You can get at alarcom s e D checklists or Etu checklist and that will kind of go through some of the things I talked about, like helping the fine goals and figure out staffing and, you know, some sort of walking those those problems through. And and I think that it's often often adding some of the website feels a little bit daunting. Often sort of experimenting within your Customer Journey feels a little bit daunting, and especially inside these big institutions, was so many different, you know, people that control different little pieces of that funnel. I think that one way of thinking about just doing business on the Internet and connecting with Gen Z is it like you gotta be there, you got to be like where where people are right during that process. So if you're you know, sitting in your office, you're on campus office right waiting for the phone to ring, or you know, you know obviously amission councilor got doing all these events all the time. But when people are in that application process and that consideration phase, they're on their phones, they're looking at websites, they are at their home filling out applications, and I think you know, if you want to learn, learn what that experience is like from their perspective, like the easiest thing to do is make it very easy to get in touch and and and start like experimenting, and I think that I would recommend that anyone listens this, you know, whether you're using US or some other provider. Like the ability to communicate with someone as they are moving through a process that you've designed and they're trying to optimize its incredibly valuable, especially when they're in the moment of doing that process, not like Hey, let me send you a text message to cry to move you through the process, but like they're literally on your site, evaluating your university and trying to figure out this is a place that they want to go to. Like if you can be there and build that relationship and create that sense of belonging and show them why you're a little bit different than some of the other institutions that also have web pages and build like a little bit of a connection can be incredibly valuable to that one individual, but also incredibly valuable to your insight into what's happening in that process. So that that would be my main take is it's it's not that hard to run a little test and start learning. Thank you. Been Love that response. For our listeners who would like to reach out and contact you may have questions. What would be the best way for them to contact you? Yeah, well, I'm super easy to get in touch with. If you can email me, just bannettle arkcom probably. If you want to ensure like I get, I get a lot of email. If you want to ensure that, like I'm, I'm on it and I get back to you. If you just want to old OCOM and chatted with someone on our team, like it just hey, like you know, I heard...

...this podcast. I want to, you know, challenge them more like those guys. Have a really good controller of my calendar and I listen everything our customer service in our customer facing teams. Flag. You can also ping me on Linkedin. I'm very responsive on Linkedin. Email is probably the place where I get may not be the best way, but I've I'll yo'll do my best. I'll do my best to find it enough. Very good. Thank you been I've loved this conversation and I think lied chat is very valuable for the higher rate community at this time. Bart, any last party words and or thoughts from you? Yeah, I just wanted to kind of I always like to take and tease out a little bit of some things that I heard that I just think are really kind of it's like taking a highlighter to it or just underlining something that we've talked about. And so couple things, especially just this last comment that been made about the idea of being willing to try some things out, trying to learn something. I'm reminded of a quote by Alvin Toffler that says the litter of the twenty one century will not be those who cannot read, but they'll be those who cannot learn, UN learn and relearn again, and I think that's so true. When we talked about technology, when we talk about all kinds of things, is that it's very dynamic, is very fluid. A lot of things are changing and I think that being successful means that you've got to be willing to kind of get out there and and and and take advantage of things when they're going on. Too many times, especially in higher education, we do things because we've always done it that way and we can't do that with generation Z. We can't do that with millennials in the way that we mark it to them. And so I think that, you know, part of what Ben talked about is so critical in there, and I also really liked what he said about, you know, be where they are. You know, we've talked to so many other people on this podcast, whether it's Adam metclaff at at Zee me, you know, with the idea of being able to have conversations with students, having peer to peer conversations on their APP, you're you're basically putting your school where they are there in social media APP in that in that particular thing. You know, we've also talked with with Ethan Beaut at at bombomb you know, the idea of having video email, and you think about the different ways that we it all comes down to relationship. Is what I'm trying to point out, is whether you're using you know, Buddy Zee me, Oh lark bom bomb. It comes down to relationship and being able to do relationship where people are and I think that we all know that facetoface is probably the most effective relationship. And then it gets to you know, video conferencing is kind of a second place area. But then you start getting down into chat, there's going to be much more personable than a live chats can be more personal than the email and video emails more personal than email. Email is kind of the default now, but I think there's a lot of other ways that we can really get more relationship and a lot more trust building with some of these other tools and these other technologies, and so don't don't take them for granted to just say, Oh, we don't need that. It's another tool in your arsenal that I think you really need to look at and I really appreciate been being on the show today to talk a little bit about that. Thank you both for those wonderful parting shots. The High Ed Marketer podcast is sponsored by...

Kaylor solutions and education, marketing and branding agency and by thing patented, a marketing execution company combining printing and mailing for higher ed outreach solutions. On behalf of my co host, Bart Kaylor. I'm Troye singer. Thank you for joining us. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with apple PODCASTS, we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time,.

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